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Author Topic:   Quality Manual
Forum Contributor

Posts: 245
From:St. Marys, PA
Registered: Sep 98

posted 10 November 1998 07:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dawn   Click Here to Email Dawn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have created a quality manual for our company which is 40 pages. It simply covers every element with a paragragh or so, except for Management Responsibility is covered in the manual instead of a procedure.
My superiors feel the manual should only be 3 or 4 pages long. Most of this reasoning is from different companies who have claimed to be certified.
Am I wrong in assuming a 3 or 4 page manual would not be adequate, and what exactly would be accurate?
Thanks, Dawn

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Scott Knutson
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Posts: 35
From:Phoenix, Arizona, USA

posted 10 November 1998 10:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Knutson   Click Here to Email Scott Knutson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Boy, I've seen lots of different approaches to quality manuals, but I must say that I've never heard of a quality manual that small. The QS9000 manual says that you have to prepare a quality manual that ". . . covers the requirements of this international standard. The manual shall include or make reference to the quality system procedures and outline the structure of the documentation used in the quality system." I would have a hard time believing that you can address all of this in 3 or 4 pages.

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Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

Posts: 4119
From:West Chester, OH, USA

posted 10 November 1998 10:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You *might* get a registrar to buy it with ISO9000 by showing everything is covered elsewhere (in tier 2's, etc.), but I seriously doubt it would fly. I would ask for a copy of a Quality Manual from the company claiming to have done this which is currently registered. I've never heard of Company Confidential Quality Manual. Share it with us.

I simply do not believe it. I want evidence.

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Kevin Mader
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Posts: 575
From:Seymour, CT USA
Registered: Nov 98

posted 11 November 1998 09:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin Mader   Click Here to Email Kevin Mader     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I believe you are on the correct path. In agreement with Marc, placing policy (level 1) into the procedural level documents (level 2) makes it difficult for a Registrar (anyone for that matter) to do a good desk study. This may lead to problems during registration. This unstructured Quality Program method is the road less traveled, and probably for good reason. I would not recommend this method, although I have seen it work (to my amazement). Lengths for Quality Manuals will vary greatly. 3-4 pages? I'd have to see that to believe it. My original Quality Manual was 24 pages and was inclusive of some of the Managament Responsibility and the Quality System element points. If you add the organiizational charts, then 30 pages.

I may have been a bit more wordy in the Quality Manual than in our procedures, but I thought it more important to make this document an easier read as well as more visually appealing to our Customers. Generally speaking, a Customer will request the Quality Manual for your company and not the Level 2 documentation. How would you, or the General Manager in your company, feel handing out a 3-4 page Quality Manual? Is this how Senior Management wants to sell the company's commitment to Quality? Probably not. It sounds to me that you may be on the right road.

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Howard Atkins
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Posts: 202

posted 12 November 1998 12:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Howard Atkins   Click Here to Email Howard Atkins     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with Kevin.
Our QM is 30 pages and includes references to the level 2 documentation. Customers want to see this and we give it out all the time to them and by their reactions this appears to be what they want.
I suggest that the copies that you give out to customers etc. are marked "uncontrolled copy" this prevents problems with document distribution etc, and shows that you are aware of all the ramifications of controlled documents.
All the best

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Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

Posts: 4119
From:West Chester, OH, USA

posted 12 November 1998 12:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Up until about 1994 you could often get thru ISO with a very abbreviated quality manual. As time has progressed interpretations and expectations have drifted. I have a quality manual for ISO9002 somewhere in my mess here which is 14 pages. It wouldn't fly now.

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Forum Contributor

Posts: 13
From:Parrish, Fl USA
Registered: Dec 98

posted 01 February 1999 12:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BILL MAYNARD   Click Here to Email BILL MAYNARD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In ref. to the size. My Procedure Manual not including the Visio Flow Charts relating to Procedures is over 50,000 words. The Quality Manual is over 35,000 words. It covers every thing. We have to realize that mistakes will happen so we need to prevent Major non-conformance to QS requirements. So don't hide anything. My new E-Mail is
Bill from Ford at Sharonville, Ohio

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Alex Grguric
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Posts: 13
From:Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Apr 99

posted 13 April 1999 03:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Alex Grguric   Click Here to Email Alex Grguric     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ask your superiors "what font size for a 3-4 page quality document?" I think they must be refering to each element in the manual should not exceed 4 pages.

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