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Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

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From:West Chester, OH, USA
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posted 04 March 2000 03:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From: manus@aol.com (Manus)
Newsgroups: misc.industry.quality
Subject: General Motors
Organization: AOL

A couple of companies that I am associated with just received notification from General Motors that they will now have to comply with ISO TS 16949 instead of QS 9000.

In know that TS 16949 is the replacement for a number of automotive standards, but it was the stance that those manufacturers in the United States who supplied "the big three" were not going to have to comply. I received this information from a number of sources and they agreed with each other (including AIAG, and a couple of registrars).

Does anyone why GM is implementing this requirement?

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Follow this link to the discussion: https://elsmar.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/000022.html

[This message has been edited by Marc Smith (edited 13 March 2001).]

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Greg Cloerkes
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posted 09 March 2000 08:33 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess the automotive world is becoming more global. There are suppliers which a suppling to the OEM in differnt places ofvthe world from different places. TS 16949 is supposed to become the common quality standard for the automotive world. So sooner or later each OEM will have to require compliance to the same standard.

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Roger Eastin
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posted 09 March 2000 03:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Roger Eastin   Click Here to Email Roger Eastin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is what confuses me about the information "flying around" about TS16949 and QS9000. Christian Lupo mentions in the TS16949 forum that high-ranking GM official whom he knows told him that TS16949 is not a requirement. Then, you read this thread where some GM reps make TS16949 a requirement!!! This is beginning to sound like "Who's on first?!".

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Marc Smith
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posted 09 March 2000 03:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess to me it's pretty much business as usual. I expect nothing less than what we're seeing. We're all bitching because the bar is being raised (or changed) regularly. Not exactly Catch 22, but close. It's frustrating to meet a requirement and then, after a 'comfort level' is achieved (Ah! We've done it! Now - back top business!), we're again shaken with a revised requirement.

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Christian Lupo
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posted 09 March 2000 03:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Christian Lupo   Click Here to Email Christian Lupo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I didn't want to mention the GM official's name on a public forum, so I guess my comment is a little ambiguous. Since I'm close to the situation, it wouldn't be very PC for me to mention names, and I don't expect amnyone to give me the name of the SQA/E over a public forum. But, if anyone wants to contact me I will make sure it gets to GM. A lot of people are saying GM is requiring TS, but when I ask the questions, who, when, what, no one wants to answer. Its been difficult to get some action from GM without anyone really steppin' forward. My email address is in my profile, and I would be happy to discuss specific instances and what other actions are possible.

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Marc Smith
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posted 23 May 2000 06:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Has Ford or Chrysler given notice to anyone?

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Don Reid
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From:North Walsham, Norfolk, England
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posted 23 May 2000 07:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Don Reid   Click Here to Email Don Reid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ford (Europe)has publicly stated that suppliers have the 'option' of QS9K or TS, and that it will not require "Q1 suppliers in good standing to obtain 3rd party registration to TS"

What "good standing" means I haven't the foggiest.

[This message has been edited by Don Reid (edited 23 May 2000).]

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Henry van amsterdam
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posted 24 May 2000 02:38 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
See the OEM communiques at
http://www.iaob.org/

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Marc Smith
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posted 24 May 2000 06:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ford sez:

Mr. David A Velliky
Ford Motor Company 17101 Rotunda Drive, MD 652
Dearborn, MI 48121
Ê
October 7, 1999

Dear Supplier:

I am pleased to inform you of an enhancement in quality processes which represent a major breakthrough in automotive industry quality system requirements. A new document, ISO/TS (Technical Specification) 16949, jointly developed by Ford and other automotive manufacturers details the harmonization of automotive supplier quality system requirements including QS-9000. This document is supported by a common global automotive registration scheme which will be accepted by Ford, and other automotive manufacturers (refer to the attached communiquŽ), as the international equivalent to QS-9000 3rd edition when coupled with company-specific requirements.

The new Technical Specification is an optional document. Suppliers to Ford have the option of using either ISO/TS 16949 or Qs-9000 3rd edition as the basis of their quality system. We will not require Q1 suppliers in good standing to obtain third party registration to ISO/TS 16949, consistent with QS-9000 practice (i.e., internal self-audit, gap analysis, corrective action effectiveness). We will only accept third party registrations to this new Technical Specification if achieved through the common automotive registration scheme - the approved certification bodies can be found on-line at "http://www.iaob.org".

For many suppliers, particularly those with multiple international automotive customers, ISO/TS 16949 may represent substantial efficiencies by allowing one audit to satisfy the quality system requirements of QS-9000. VDA 6.1, AVSQ, EAQF when coupled with individual company-specific quality requirements and the common automotive registration scheme. The new Technical Specification may become the single automotive industry quality management standard of the future.

If you have any questions please feel free to contact Steve Walsh at 313-845-8442, fax: 313-845-6138, e-mail: 'swalsh@ford.com' or Mark Orosz at 313-845-5179, fax: 313-390-1080, email: 'morosz@ford.com'.

Best Regards,

Dave Villiky

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Marc Smith
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posted 24 May 2000 06:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
GM Sez:

General Motors
Worldwide Purchasing

November 9, 1999

To: All General Motors Global Suppliers

Subject: New ISO/TS 16949 and QS-9000 GM Customer-Specific Requirements

As a result of the harmonization efforts of the supplier quality system requirements of car manufacturers worldwide, GM, as part of the International Automotive Task Force (IATF), has agreed to recognize the new ISO/TS 16949 standard. This standard provides a supplier of several car manufacturers with a single quality management system recognized by all IATF-participating companies at a minimum. We also plan to have a third party certification process that IATF-participationg companies will recognize as satisfying their current certification requirements, effective November 1, 1999.

GM will accept, as optional to QS-9000, a third party certification to ISO/TS 16949 that meets the following conditions:

* The certification scope must include both ISO/TS 16949 and the accompanying ISO/TS 16949 GM-Customer Specific Requirements, which are available on the GM supplier Web Site (www.gmsupplier.com)

* The certificaiton must be conducted in compliance with the IATF automotive certification scheme by a certification body contracted by an IATF trade association. e.g. VDA, SMMT, AIAG.

Note that GM does NOT require you to upgrade your QS-9000 certificate to ISO/TS 16949. However we strongly recommend that you use your next QS-9000 surveillance audit to upgrade to the ISO/TS 16949 with the above conditions.

Sincerely,

Bo Anderson
Executive-In-Charge

General Motors Corporation
30400 Mound Road
North American Headquarters
Mail Code 480-108-101
Warren, MI 48090

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Marc Smith
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posted 24 May 2000 06:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Chrysler sez:

DAIMLERCHRYSLER

Recognition of VDA 6.1 and QS-9000 Standards

Dear Supplier

It should be noted that every supplier of production parts to DaimlerChrysler must be third party registered.

Effective immediately, as part of our Global Procurement & Supply strategy at DaimlerChrysler, registration to either VDA 6.1 or QS-9000, including company specific requirements, will be accepted as quality registration from our suppliers.

Our recognition of both standards facilitates your Quality Management and thereby helps our Extended Enterprise¨ to enhance its competitiveness.

Registration to ISO/TS 16949, including company specifics, will also be accepted as quality registration from our suppliers. This new Technical Specification may become the Quality Management standard of the future.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact:

Henry Gryn, P&S/SQ at 248-512-1452, Fax. 248-512-1423 in Auburn Hills, MI
Bernd-Martin Lembke, MEP/SP at +49-7031-90-88725, Fax. -88720 in Stuttgart, Germany

I am convinced that this is one more step on our common way toward delighting our customers with products of the highest quality which exceed their expectations every day.

Sincerely,
Gary C. Valade

DaimlerChrysler Corporation
1000 Chrysler Drive
CIMS 485-15-40
Auburn Hills, MI USA 48326-2766

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Marc Smith
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posted 13 March 2001 02:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also see:
https://elsmar.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/000049.html

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woodsy94
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posted 18 March 2001 10:18 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is there anywhere to get this info from GM? Like from their website or something. I would like to get a copy of this requirement.

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Alan Greatbatch
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From:Neuch‰tel, Switzerland
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posted 06 April 2001 11:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Alan Greatbatch   Click Here to Email Alan Greatbatch     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have never read TS16949 does it include environmental considerations (ISO14001) like VDA6.1?

Another thing that has been bugging me since my involvement with QS. Why aren't the damn auto dealers certified? After all its us, Jo Public, who are the end customer not the Big 3!

------------------
Alan Greatbatch

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Al Dyer
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From:Lapeer, MI USA
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posted 06 April 2001 04:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Al Dyer   Click Here to Email Al Dyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
TS-16949 does not include ISO-14000

As for the auto dealers:

Are they suppliers to, or a customer of, the assembly plants?

Probably a hazy area, considering service ramifications and if the dealer is independently owned, but I see them as customers of the assemply plants.

On another note, automotive plants that suppliy parts and service to the assembly plans need to follow the QS-9000 standards. I'll need to research some more to see how TS-16949 would fit into the picture.

I am most familiar with GM so I'm not sure about the nuances of the other companies.

ASD...

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Spaceman Spiff
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posted 04 June 2001 08:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spaceman Spiff   Click Here to Email Spaceman Spiff     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just read in Quality Today ( http://www.qualitytoday.com ) that UL granted DaimlerChrysler ISO 9001:2000 certification. If that's not another nail on the coffin for QS I don't know what is.

************************
Editors Note: Edited to make link 'active'.

[This message has been edited by Marc Smith (edited 04 June 2001).]

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