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Author Topic:   Traceability - Semiconductor supplement
Michel Saad
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Posts: 18
From:Bromont, Quebec, Canada
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 19 May 2000 01:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Michel Saad     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In the semiconductor supplement, under element 4.8 it is stated:

"The supplier shall be able to trace product (incoming,inprocess and shipped materials and test data) fowards and backwards within 24 hours. In addition, the supplier shall provide containement within 24 hours"

Does this mean that we have to be able to do a full traceability from raw materials to shipping within 24 hours after the customer contacts us?

Unless I am missing something, why should the semiconductor world be expected to respond faster than the rest?

24 working hours (3 days) or 24 real hours?

We archive our system every 6 months, then traceability can take up to 5 working days to retreive.

I need help in interpreting and understanding this requirement. Any input is welcome.

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lyman
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From:Salem, Oregon
Registered: May 2000

posted 19 May 2000 03:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lyman   Click Here to Email lyman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The QS9K registrar we used looked at whether we could really meet the 24 hr (real hours) requirement. Luckily, our computerized system was well backed up and the IT department had the 24 hr requirement written in their working documents as well so expectations were well defined, understood and planned for. The computerized manufacturing system was set up to trace lot id and history from raw wafer start through off shore assembly. Our registrar questioned availability of histories on the week-end or evenings knowing that the IT department was 8-5 (M-F) - we had a couple of responses:

1) Prior to archival of the electronic record - all Fab personnel were trained to pull lot histories. All supervisory, management personnel were trained to pull specific histories (part id, family ids, yield info, etc.) so this information could be pulled 24 hrs a day.

2) Once archival occurred the records could be retrieved through IT - since they always had someone on call, if we had an emergency they would come in on their off hours. However, the reality was most of our customers were pretty much 8-5 M-F kinda guys and we didn't hear from them other than on those days. However, the assembly sites were a whole different animal and we usually would get someone in on emergency notice if the records were archived, and we had the possiblity of going line down.

3) Don't forget the Supplement also allows for modification of the time period by negotiating with the customer. However, I seriously doubt that any customer will buy a 5 day delay - don't forget the notice should also start the clock for containment of a possible larger issue.

Regards

[This message has been edited by lyman (edited 19 May 2000).]

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Marc Smith
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posted 20 May 2000 07:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The 24 hours was set in part because of the possible critical nature of ICs in cars today as I understand it. I do know Motorola and other 'biggies' participated intimately in the last revision of the supplement.

During Motorola's registration audit in Guadalajara it took less than 8 hours, as I remember. The auditors came in at 11 PM and 'started the clock'.

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Michel Saad
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From:Bromont, Quebec, Canada
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posted 23 May 2000 08:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Michel Saad     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I appreciate the information. Am I to understand that the during the audit, we will have to perform a full traceability within 24 hours. Starting on every shift or day shift only?

Susan, did you have to do this?

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Marc Smith
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posted 23 May 2000 08:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
They can say "Start!" at any time of day or night if you're running 24/7. As I said above, in one audit they arrived unannounced (well, several folks in upper management knew when it would happen then but the plant was not as a whole advised) at 11 PM (two days into a 4 day audit - 4 auditors) and said: "Start Now!"

I can't say if you're not running 24/7 - haven't had that situation to address.

[This message has been edited by Marc Smith (edited 23 May 2000).]

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lyman
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From:Salem, Oregon
Registered: May 2000

posted 23 May 2000 11:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lyman   Click Here to Email lyman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Michel

As Marc said the clock should start at notice: day, night, or weekend. I was at Motorola/ Phoenix and we ran 24/7 also, our registrar's auditors didn't come in at night to test the system. However, we did have occasion to get requests from the assembly sites and we needed to produce the evidence and start containment once we received notice. Of course, urgency and response is much more dependent upon whether your part initiates the airbag or the radio. I do remember that the some of the semiconductor groups originally separated response time to issues based on whether or not it was an external (e.g., assembly site, end line customer) vs an internal (next in line process) customer - external receiving higher priority. However, the groups were moving to applying the same standard to all customers - containment in 24 hrs or less, initial response to customer in 48 hr or less, corrective action within 10 working days (this figure probably has been reduced by now). I cannot speak to anything but a 24/7 operation, haven't seen a 8/5 in a long time in the semiconductor world.

Regards

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Marc Smith
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posted 23 May 2000 11:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Were you in Phoenix during the winter/spring registration (1998)?

Is it On-Semi now?

Did you know Leon Humble?

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Michel Saad
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From:Bromont, Quebec, Canada
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 23 May 2000 12:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Michel Saad     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Susan,

Thanks for the input. We are running 24/7 and we do have a computerized production system. Anything on the production line is easy. We have people on call as well. One of the issues is that we are on the east coast. Many of our customers and suppliers are on the west (2 to 3 hour difference)and most of our assembly sub-contractors are in asia (12,13 hour time difference). Getting data (or containement) from everyone and getting back to the customer within 24 hours sound difficult. We better start figuring something out unless we can get a waiver from our customer.

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lyman
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From:Salem, Oregon
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posted 23 May 2000 12:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lyman   Click Here to Email lyman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Marc:

I was there - still have the stress lines to prove it as I was part of the Zener/ Rectifier Wafer Fab - voted most likely to torpedo registration efforts!! The company is now ON. I didn't know Leon, but worked with and have great respect for Angel Cifuentes whom I'm sure you got to know down in Guad.

Michel:

I've learned that time is relative in the semiconductor world - if they want to reach you they will and the response is always due two days ago!

Regards all around

[This message has been edited by lyman (edited 23 May 2000).]

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Marc Smith
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posted 26 May 2000 06:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Did Rich Himmel (consultant from Ohio) work with (help?) your group?

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Marc Smith
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posted 26 May 2000 06:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Michel Saad:

We better start figuring something out unless we can get a waiver from our customer.


I didn't realize you can get a waiver for this requirement.

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Michel Saad
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Posts: 18
From:Bromont, Quebec, Canada
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 26 May 2000 07:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Michel Saad     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Originally posted by Marc smith:
_________________________________________
I didn't realize you can get a waiver for this requirement
__________________________________________

This is why I said this and anyways, I think that just about everything is negociable.

Originally posted by Lyman:
___________________________________________
3) Don't forget the Supplement also allows for modification of the time period by negotiating with the customer.
___________________________________________

Is this right or not?

Regards.

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lyman
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Posts: 19
From:Salem, Oregon
Registered: May 2000

posted 26 May 2000 11:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lyman   Click Here to Email lyman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Michel:

The Standard says "The time period for traceability may be modified by specific customer requirements." Once again, I'm sure that maneuverability is going to be tied to what the part is used for. This statement seems to indicate that response time could be negotiated in your contracts. Additionally, it seems to me that with most companies becoming global (parent companies, subcontractors, assembly sites, etc., in different time zones)everyone is in the same boat and they understand the impact it will have on getting all the correct team members together and information back. The only time I've seen customers become less flexible is when there has been a chronic problem that doesn't appear to be getting any attention from the supplier. The organization that I was with didn't have an issue with response time because it was made a priority expectation (set by management) that everyone (down to shop floor personnel) in the organization held and was accountable for.

Regards

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lyman
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From:Salem, Oregon
Registered: May 2000

posted 26 May 2000 11:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lyman   Click Here to Email lyman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Marc:

Yes Richard did work with our group and he was a God send, we couldn't have gotten registered without his guidance. He helped set up a system, and generate an attitude in the organization that truly bought into the benefits of a fully implemented Quality Management System. You consultants provide such a valuable service that is all too often unrecognized as being necessary by the management teams of most companies I've had experience with. Getting ready to go through QS registration efforts with the group I'm currently with and once again the same attitudes are surfacing from groups outside of the Quality organization - it's soooo frustrating.

Have a great holiday weekend.

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Marc Smith
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posted 26 May 2000 01:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I hope Rich doesn't read this - his head is big enough!!!

Yeah - we had fun in Phoenix and Mesa. I must admit, however, I liked Guad a lot. Guad was a lot more 'personal' than Phoenix was and we didn't have the overhead and confusion of management that Phoenix did. Jerry Keller was the plant manager - one helluva nice person. Guad was the most pleasant, rewarding and fulfilling registration projects I have done.

I met up again with Angel briefly at Phoenix, but we didn't really have much time to spend. A really nice fella. There was another fella from Guad at Phoenix - I can't remember his name... But we took a trip up the the Canyon one week end.

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