The Elsmar Cove Business Standards Discussion Forums More Free Files Forum Discussion Thread Post Attachments Listing Elsmar Cove Discussion Forums Main Page
Welcome to what was The Original Cayman Cove Forums!
This thread is carried over and continued in the Current Elsmar Cove Forums

Search the Elsmar Cove!

Wooden Line
This is a "Frozen" Legacy Forum.
Most links on this page do NOT work.
Discussions since 2001 are HERE

Owl Line
The New Elsmar Cove Forums   The New Elsmar Cove Forums
  QS-9000
  Process changes

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Process changes
Martin
Forum Contributor

Posts: 18
From:The Netherlands
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 23 May 2000 06:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Martin   Click Here to Email Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I had a question: I have difficulty with the fact what exactly a process change (4.9.5.) is. I will give an example. If our operators change the setting of the machinery I think it's a process change, but if we have to register every time that happens the paperwork isn't "funny" anymore. Can somebody give me a good explanation of process change?

Thanks in advance,
Martin

IP: Logged

Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

Posts: 4119
From:West Chester, OH, USA
Registered:

posted 23 May 2000 08:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is this in regard to resubmission of PPAP to address an 'official' process change?

IP: Logged

Martin
Forum Contributor

Posts: 18
From:The Netherlands
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 23 May 2000 08:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Martin   Click Here to Email Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It isnęt regard to resubmission, because I get that, but itęs regard to point 4.9.5. Which states the following:
The supplier shall maintain records of process change effective dates. (see 4.5.3.)
Note: Changes to promote continuous improvement are encouraged. Consult the customer for guidance on approval requirements for such changes.

And I donęt know how I must see the process changes in this case. The same as with the PPAP submission. Maybe you could tell me...

Thanx anyway,
Martin

IP: Logged

Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

Posts: 4119
From:West Chester, OH, USA
Registered:

posted 23 May 2000 08:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you change a stated process parameter it is a process change. If you change a set-up procedure, a control plan (one or more items) or other process particular, you are changing the process. Typically this is a non-issue as the documents are controlled and as such a history of changes is found in the documents themselves. Most companies look to their Engineering Change System as the repository of a history of process changes and their implementation dates/times. An important factor is looking at this with regard to traceability as well.

What requires resubmission of PPAP is variable and has been discussed in a number of threads here. Do a Search here (maybe for 'resubmit' or PPAP). If you don't find anything, come back to this thread and let me know. I'll help out from there. OK?

IP: Logged

Martin
Forum Contributor

Posts: 18
From:The Netherlands
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 23 May 2000 08:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Martin   Click Here to Email Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK.. I get it, so I donęt have to document every change that my operators make when the change the parameters am I right? Because the way I see it now is that you have a total process change (changing set up instructions, process flow, etc.) or part process change (changing parameters)....

Thanx, Martin

IP: Logged

Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

Posts: 4119
From:West Chester, OH, USA
Registered:

posted 23 May 2000 09:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You have a lathe operation. You notice that you are getting a 'trail' on your piece. Your inspection shows that although this 'trail' is visible, the part passes your surface roughness requirement. You slow down feed rate 10% from set-up and the problem worsens. The operator increases the feed rate 20% from set-up and the problem goes away. The responsible engineer changes the CNC set-up program to reflect this 20% increase. Is this a process change? I wouldn't classify it as such but you can get an arguement that it is. It really has no effect on the product - it was passing (technically) prior to the change and the change of a feed rate is not (opinion on word choice) significant.

You have to make some decisions on a case by case basis what is 'significant' to your process.

Where operators can make adjustments they are typically 'minor' - you want an engineer involved if a 'major' problem arises. Where the operators are 'tuning', they are not really changing the process. In the lathe example operators are allowed to adjust feed rate +/- 30% from set-up. They do not have to get authorization to do this. However - it is expected that the responsible engineer (or other 'authority') be (in general) monitoring what is going on so that s/he knows if every operator on every shift is always setting the feed rate up 20%. The operators are not, however, required to record the change unless it is in response to an out-of-control condition where it is recorded on the control chart.

However, if you change the set-up instruction it technically becomes a process change, but is it significant? Not in my opinion. I don't believe 4.9.5 is meant to control this type of minor process change. I see 4.9.5 as important in more 'significant' process changes such as a change from a grind to a hone, a large process parameter change (such as mold temperature or hold time in injection molding) or a sequence change.

[This message has been edited by Marc Smith (edited 23 May 2000).]

IP: Logged

All times are Eastern Standard Time (USA)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply Hop to:

Contact Us | The Elsmar Cove Home Page

Your Input Into These Forums Is Appreciated! Thanks!


Main Site Search
Y'All Come Back Now, Ya Hear?
Powered by FreeBSD!Made With A Mac!Powered by Apache!