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  QS-9000
  4.10.4.2 Final Product Audit

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Author Topic:   4.10.4.2 Final Product Audit
Steven Truchon
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Posts: 93
From:Fort Lauderdale, FL USA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 12 July 2001 03:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steven Truchon   Click Here to Email Steven Truchon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This has probably been covered before but here is my issue anyway.
We have a debate regarding the intent of the "dock audit" according to QS9K. Our QM insists that it is merely to verify that the correct part#, revision, quantity, packaging, and labeling are correct, and that product verification extending to any dimensional or other physical property inspection is pure redundancy and therefore not the intent of the standard.
I maintain that it does include a dimensional verification and should be based on sampling as indicated in the "note" at the end of 4.10.4.2.

I would appreciate any feedback on this one.
Thanks in advance.
Steve Truchon
Precision Resource-Florida

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mjames
unregistered
posted 12 July 2001 04:48 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would tend to agree that the product also requires verification of conformance. The 4.10.4.2 para does mention the word
"product" as part of the verification process. It does not require a specific method of sampling (i.e., mil-std) so I am assuming that your decided level of sampling should be based on what best suits your needs. It is the frequency that is of concern and the manipulation of that frequency. I have dealt with auditors that were very interested in how the frequency of the audits could change more so than the sample size. But I do agree that the product must be reviewed for conformance.

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Al Dyer
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Posts: 814
From:Lapeer, MI USA
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 12 July 2001 05:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Al Dyer   Click Here to Email Al Dyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve,

Have had the discusion many times.

In a past experience and auditor asked me if dimensions were specified requirements, of course. He noted that the examples given are just that, examples, not a limited list. Read into this that the word "product" applies to product requirements/specifications.

Also, as I'm sure you know, the notes are for reference only, it does not even include the words "shall" or "should".

What has worked in the past is a dock audit report that includes packaging, labeling, identification.

On the form is an area that requires the inspector to take the traveler number that goes with the product back to the lab where final inspection records are stored. They verify that the parts are indeed within dimensional requirements, not by measurement, but by ensuring that all of the readings taken during final are indeed within spec limits and that the inspection form has been signed by appropriate personnel.

ASD...

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Roger Eastin
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Posts: 360
From:Greenville, SC
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posted 13 July 2001 08:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Roger Eastin   Click Here to Email Roger Eastin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do a search on this one. We have had this discussion ever since the requirement came out. You will find a treasure chest full of interesting interpretations on final dock audits!

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Marc Smith
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Posts: 4367
From:West Chester, OH, USA
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posted 13 July 2001 08:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah - a couple are https://elsmar.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000037.html and https://elsmar.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000417.html for starters.

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Sam
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Posts: 275
From:
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 13 July 2001 09:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sam   Click Here to Email Sam     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve, I agree with your issue on sampling.
As for dimensional verification I refer back to the records that were completed during in process and final inspection.
Packaging and labeling is verified and recorded at random.
Our products go from the shop floor to shipping to the truck to be shipped that day. I just cannot imagine holding up shipment while someone wants to do a dimensional verification.

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ml retcher
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Posts: 24
From:usa
Registered: Jun 99

posted 13 July 2001 10:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ml retcher   Click Here to Email ml retcher     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We use dock audits to verify product that has had previous problems. If we authorize a return for product then through our corrective action system a dock audit is issued to be done for the next shipment. We preform a dimensional inspection. If we have stock and purged to verify a dock audit is not necessary. In most cases we do not carry stock due to our JIT.

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