Welcome to what was The Original Cayman Cove Forums! This thread is carried over and continued in the Current Elsmar Cove Forums

This is a "Frozen" Legacy Forum.
Discussions since 2001 are HERE

 The New Elsmar Cove Forums The New Elsmar Cove Forums   Statistical Techniques and 6 Sigma   R&R difference between QS9000 and ASTM    profile | register | preferences | faq | search
 Author Topic:   R&R difference between QS9000 and ASTM FanjunLurker (<10 Posts) Posts: 5From:Shanghai, PRCRegistered: Feb 99 posted 02 February 1999 09:28 AM                I learned MSA a month ago. I found that the Reproducibility is smaller than the Repeatability in the calculation of Gage R&R. But in all standards of analytical method such as ASTM and ISO standards, Reproducibility is always bigger than Repeatability. How to explain it? IP: Logged Don WintonForum Contributor Posts: 498From:Tullahoma, TNRegistered: posted 02 February 1999 11:11 AM                Fanjun, quote:Reproducibility is always bigger than Repeatability.This should not be the case. Each should be based on the data collected and the respective variations. Perhaps a re-check of the references is in order. In some cases, variation across operators will be greater than variation across trials and vise versa.Maybe someone else more knowledgeable in the mechanics of the MSA manual methodology could shed some light on this, but I believe the statistics of ANOVA (on which the R&R is based) would preclude this from happening.Regards,Don IP: Logged FanjunLurker (<10 Posts) Posts: 5From:Shanghai, PRCRegistered: Feb 99 posted 04 February 1999 08:44 AM                I have some ASTM Standard Test Methods on hand such as ASTM D5708-95a , ASTM D2007-93 and so on. In D5708-95a,it says the Repeatability of Vanadium is 4.0 mg/kg,the Reproducibility of it is 19 mg/kg,when the concentration is 100 mg/kg. In D2007-93,the result is Repeatability: 1.3%, Reproducibility: 7.8%.They all show that Reproducibility is bigger than Repeatability,and my other ASTM methods show the same case.I think you can find them somewhere and will be kindly so as to give me an explanation. IP: Logged Don WintonForum Contributor Posts: 498From:Tullahoma, TNRegistered: posted 04 February 1999 04:24 PM                Fanjun,My response was to indicate this is not ALWAYS the case. I could (and will if needed) provide examples where repeatability is larger than reproducibility. The LTV manual has some of this type.Advice: Do not use examples as the condition. Variability exists just as much across operators as across trials.Regards,Don IP: Logged BatmanForum Contributor Posts: 111From:Kane, PA 16735Registered: posted 07 February 1999 11:33 AM                Could it be that Fanjun is reading a particular test method, that has been analysed before? I could state that on a particular laser micrometer in my lab, on a particular shaft diameter, that the Equipment variation [Repeatability] is 11.1%, the Appraiser variation [Reproduceability]is 4.5% for a combined 12.03% (real example.) This test would of course vary the next time, but in general if I was writing a specification for the test method here I could state the above percentages? IP: Logged Don WintonForum Contributor Posts: 498From:Tullahoma, TNRegistered: posted 07 February 1999 12:54 PM                quote:Could it be that Fanjun is reading a particular test method, that has been analysed before?I think that is the case. Your example is is a good explanation of what I was trying to express.As I stated, I could also provide others, but I believe your points are well taken and should provide enough explanation.Regards,Don IP: Logged
 All times are Eastern Standard Time (USA) next newest topic | next oldest topic Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic Hop to: Select a Forum or Archive List of Forums: Category: General Quality Topics --------------------Measurement, Test and CalibrationStatistical Techniques and 6 SigmaDocumentationNonconformance and Corrective Action SystemsContinuous ImprovementBenchmarkingTPM - Total Productive MaintenanceBaldrige National Quality AwardTQM - Total Quality ManagementMiscellaneous Quality TopicsBook ReviewsQuality Assurance SoftwareOccupations in Quality Assurance Category: National & International Standards --------------------ISO 9001/4:2000ISO 9000:1994ISO 14001 And Other Environmental SpecsGeneral ISO TopicsBS8800 & OHSAS 18001FDA and Medical DevicesAS 9100TL 9000 Category: Auditing and Registrars --------------------AuditingRegistrars and Registration Category: Automotive Related --------------------TS 16949QS-9000Tooling and Equipment SuppliersForo en Espa–olAPQP and PPAPFMEA and Control PlansEmbedded Devices and Control SoftwareVDA Volumes Including 6.1 Category: Guide Buyers Forums --------------------Guide Pre-Purchase QuestionsGuide Post-Purchase Questions Category: Software Quality Assurance --------------------Linux InfoTickit Scheme ForumSoftware Quality AssuranceInternet History Category: Odds and Ends --------------------Used - Buy and SellForums - How Do They Work? Suggestions!Company Advertisements - Free Offers, etc. List of Archives: PoliticsJokes