posted 02 January 2001 01:18 PM               

You have summed it up: there is no "Instant Pudding".

Regards,

posted 03 January 2001 12:37 PM               

I am afraid that my position would be to discourage your trek until you have had a chance to explore the pros and cons. For me, the current six sigmas programs are littered with cons. When the tool is used properly, it can be of some use. However, this is not the case in general. Missing ingredient: profound knowledge.

Regards,

posted 03 January 2001 03:33 PM            

My opinion is black belt training is a graduate level statistics course, with two exceptions. First, the program offers a specific road map of the tools you should use and in what order they should be used. Second, the program teaches how to save money during the project, whereas a stats course would tell you to wait until the end to draw conclusions.

These are just my impressions, but I thought it might help. By the way, I am sold on the concept.

posted 05 January 2001 05:04 AM              

Equally interesting to me would be any stories of firms that have tried and failed with Six sigma and to find out why.

Does this stuff really work? Is it too onerous to push through?

Any books that explain how to really use this approach? i.e. a case study or "paint by numbers" that takes you through the application of all activities in a Six Sigma project so that you could then know enough to start one at your own company without hiring expensive consultants?

posted 05 January 2001 02:45 PM               

"Do not confuse coincidence with cause and effect (Gipsie Ranney). True: anyone could make a list of companys that are doing well, even though their management follows one or all of the above bad practices (WED earlier in the book covered his 14 points with examples of how things are done today with the Western Management Philosophy juxtaposed to how things should be; with anecdotes). Any of these companies might do much better were the management to learn a theory of managment.

If anyone were to study without theory such a company, i.e., without knowing what questions to ask, he would be tempted to copy the company, on the pretext that "they must be doing something right." To copy is to invite disaster." (end quote)

Many folks are jumping onto the Six Sigma bandwagon without knowledge of both sides, IMHO. In my earlier post, I suggested that further understanding was necessary prior to starting off on any trek. I believe that this is consistent with what Deming was saying in the above quote. Folks are seeing the apparent successful deployment of Six Sigma in GE and Allied Signal. It should be noted that the longterm effects of thier programs are unknown and their success may not entirely correlate with Six Sigma practices. This is fact. I am also aware of proper uses of the six sigma tool (not philosophy). A tool, any tool, properly used can yield positive results. A tool misused can cause disaster.

If GE is successful with this plan, then we will be too. Rubbish! Be careful, do your homework, and if you still so elect, try Six Sigma. It is up to you.

Regards,

Kevin

p.s. I have not read Dr. Harry's books on Six Sigma. I have read several of his articles and articles about him. I do not like what I see. I haven't plans to purchase either of his books in the future. Normally, I will read books on opposite opinions to mine to see if there is anything of merit in them. There very well might be something. Still, from all that I have still to read, this is a low item on a very long list of must read items.

posted 08 January 2001 01:40 PM               

Here is where you might want to look. I believe that the ASQ/Six Sigma Acadamy was initiated in November of 1999. I don't know if you are a member of the ASQ or not, but from the November 1999 issue on, you will find Six Sigma references, articles, and letters to the editor (QP Mailbag) that might give you some insight(QP=Quality Progress). Dr. Mikel Harry is featured in the November 1999 article "Cowboy Way" where the editor of Quality Progress paid a visit to his ranch where the Six Sigma Academy convenes (at about $35,000 a head).

Dr. Harry's philosophy is centered about Statistical Thinking as attached to selected Cost Reduction items as determined by Top Management and Finance. The goal is increased profitability and increased short term dividends for the stockholder. The focus of the program is on results, very consistent with the Western Management Philosophy of Command Control and Linear Thinking. Both of these concepts are quite dated and inefficient. The attachment of the Six Sigma philosophy to these concepts gives them added life, that in my opinion, leads us further from the mark. The mark? A harmonistic and holistic approach where all components in the System are given due consideration. The scope of Six Sigma is limited to a few relationships, primarily the investor/organization and perhaps the customer/organization. All relationships, as defined by the organization to be part of the System, are important. The aim of every organization should be to expand the System, refine the AIM, and create win-win for everyone.

Time to share the floor.

Regards,

Kevin

posted 11 January 2001 08:34 AM               

Regards,

posted 29 January 2001 11:34 AM               

Can not comment on Tom's new book however his past publications have been very good.

posted 29 January 2001 05:31 PM               

If this analogy isn't too crude, the whole discussion reminds me of miracle devices to improve the gas mileage on your car (e.g.; first you clamp the cow magnets on the fuel line then you have your car tuned up. Mileage improvement is guaranteed).

Anyway, I'm way over my head here. I'm still trying to figure out how those darned cow magnets work.

posted 02 April 2001 08:56 AM               

I can't comment on the book, but in general, I have thought that Pyzdek's comments on statistics is very good (articles, papers).

The problem I am having (please keep in mind that as I have said, I have not read the book) is that he endorses the Six Sigma concept. A statistician with vast experience in SPC should recognize the folly of Six Sigma (IMHO). I do not know his motivation for writing this book.

Rick posted the iSixSigma forum above. They have a page with other SixSigma links. I would like to suggest that you give Arthur M. Schneiderman's paper "Question: when is six sigma not six sigma? Answer: when it's the six sigma metric!!" It is pretty informative.

Regards,

posted 06 April 2001 04:54 PM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug:
Having begun The Six Sigma Way (Pande, Newman, Cavanagh), finding it generally, unreadable and the concept not particularly different from TQM, am remiss to give it much attention. Of course, the concept is great, though not understood by most in the workplace. My quandary is that I am sure management will want to start saying '6 sigma' all over the place at any moment and it will go the way of TQM after a lot of miss-training by some consultant. Obviously, a dummy, where can I get a 'Cliffs Notes' or '6 Sigma for Dummies?' My tediometer is just about overfull from bad starts with new concepts from mahogany row.

---