posted 12 July 1998 02:41 AM               

>From: CHARLEY SCALIES
>Subject: Re:Internal Auditing/Scalies
>
>Let's see if I can't stir the cauldron a little....
>The RAB is proposing to "certify" internal auditors and internal auditor
>training courses. (Another racket: and not tennis, folks.) They propose, among
>other silliness, that the "certified courses" spend a great deal of time
>teaching the ISO9000 standards. Just what the wprld needs more deftless,
>inbred auditors. Wake up, McFly!. Internal audits are not the same as
>registration audits. Their focus is different, They do things for different
>reasons. They just happen to use many of the same techniques. If the RAB ever
>learns that lesson, they can apply to me for certification and accreditation.
>Boy! What did I have for breakfast today that made me so grouchy?
>Charley

>From: Bill Cox
> Subject: Internal Auditing/Scalies/Cox

I had responded to D. Arter's post:

>Without even looking at the [RAB] documents, I have an
>opinion (naturally)
>Companies do not need to pay RAB's fees or
>put up with their bureaucracy.
>This is a solution to a "problem" that does not exist.
>RAB should leave internal auditing up to the company.

Well, now I've read them, and I was right ;) Analogous to govt. meddling in business, where its "help" isn't needed or wanted.

Regards, Bill Cox TQM Consulting

------snippo--------

I posted this as I see the RAB and several other organizations (and a number of companies, for that matter) as using all that is going on as a Money Pot. And that is sad. It seems any more everyone and every task has to be 'certified' or otherwise 'controlled'. As a consultant, this is fine with me - training is good money. But - when does it stop? How far can they go in proscribing required training for individual companies?

In my opinion, Internal Auditing should be sub-contracted out. I admit that. I think it is the best way to achieve impartiality and, drawing from a pool of experienced auditors, I believe it is the best way to get serious, valid outputs. There are many other arguements. Some are given in the 'old' message forum threads.

posted 16 July 1998 08:22 PM               

Check lists are an aide..a prompt if you will. If you try to just use the list, and check it off as you wander around...then you are lousy audit material.

If there is a question on a check list, there are 20 more that will lead you to that answer..those are your technique.....then you have the evidence to answer the question on the list.

posted 08 August 1998 11:40 PM               

Interested in some more RAB Certifications to train and pay for? The RAB has released proposals for three new ways for them to make money - errr, I mean three new Certification initiatives:

"Requirements for the Accreditation of an Auditor Training Course"

"Requirements for the Accreditation of an Auditor Training Course -Administration QMS"

"Certification Criteria for Quality Management System InternalAuditors"

All three of these money makers, errrr - of these proposals... can be downloaded from (where else? [RAB=ASQC]):

The ASQ.

Go to the reference shelf, and access the RAB Certification entry. The documents are not directly acessable at this site, but may be downloaded in just a few moments.

MODERATOR NOTE:

Received and posted for clarification on 19990713:

As you and I discussed, please remove the words "Communications Chair of the ASQ Quality Audit Division" from the following text as posted under the topic, "Unneccessary, Unwanted RAB Intervention" on your web page. (I'm sorry, I couldn't find the posting number.) I have recently been asked if this was a QAD sponsored message, and it was not. Hopefully, by removing the reference to QAD, we will help avoid any future confusion (and phone calls to me!). These comments were Dave's, and should not have come across as being endorsed by the Quality Audit Division.

Thank you very much,

Wendy Finnerty,
Immediate Past Chair, Quality Audit Division