The Elsmar Cove Business Standards Discussion Forums More Free Files Forum Discussion Thread Post Attachments Listing Elsmar Cove Discussion Forums Main Page
Welcome to what was The Original Cayman Cove Forums!
This thread is carried over and continued in the Current Elsmar Cove Forums

Search the Elsmar Cove!

Wooden Line
This is a "Frozen" Legacy Forum.
Most links on this page do NOT work.
Discussions since 2001 are HERE

Owl Line
The New Elsmar Cove Forums   The New Elsmar Cove Forums
  Auditing
  INTERNAL AUDIT

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   INTERNAL AUDIT
MADHAVAN
Lurker (<10 Posts)

Posts: 7
From:CHENNAI-INDIA
Registered:

posted 24 March 1999 09:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MADHAVAN   Click Here to Email MADHAVAN     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Recently in our Audit, the auditor raised a NCR(minor) "internal auditor qualification not prescribed".
in our Procedure, we had given "internal auditors are selectedbased on the experience and seniority in service and they are provided training as per ISO10011"

to my knowledge, there is no prescribed qualification except training.
please comment

IP: Logged

John C
Forum Contributor

Posts: 134
From:Cork City, Ireland
Registered: Nov 98

posted 25 March 1999 05:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for John C   Click Here to Email John C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Madhavan,
I asked this question of our Registrar (I'm based in Ireland) just a couple of weeks ago. The answer was that there are no specific requirements but that we would be expected to have a formal training program and training records.
From my reading of contributions to these discussions the US, it seems that more and more national/local requirements for training are becoming effectively mandatory so I can't say what your situation is in practise.
rgds, John C

IP: Logged

Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

Posts: 4119
From:West Chester, OH, USA
Registered:

posted 25 March 1999 06:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ISO9001 does not proscribe specific requirements, training or other, for any position in your company - the requirement is that your company do so.

Typically this is done in job requirements. Internal auditing is often overlooked in the sense that it is not 'typically' seen as a job and thus requirements for auditors is often overlooked. Internal auditing (especially in QS9000) is now being pushed hard.

I have cautioned in a number of my various posts, that Internal Auditing is now generally seen as a job and as such you have to define your requirement(s) for internal auditors.

QS9000 is taking internal auditing to a rediculous extreme - certification (the ASQC and the big3 'gang' see more $$$ IMHO). The role of internal auditing is, I believe, out of hand and out of perspective.

My personal opinion is that companies should outsource internal audits as a specialty service.

IP: Logged

Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

Posts: 4119
From:West Chester, OH, USA
Registered:

posted 25 March 1999 12:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Subject: internal audit
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:33:53 +0530
From: "Dr.MADHAVAN"
To: cheech@Elsmar.com

what we have already done is to select internal auditors from the employees who have put in long service with the company and also who are fairly at a senior positions (say a minimum of managerial position.) we thought this was adequate .added to this, we have provided the selected people with internal audit training by an external individual Lead auditor. we thought this should take care the requirements.

is it ok?


I should think that will do. You still have to define and document your minimum requirements for that 'job'.

[This message has been edited by Marc Smith (edited 03-25-99).]

IP: Logged

Amar Seth
Lurker (<10 Posts)

Posts: 4
From:New Delhi , India
Registered: Mar 99

posted 27 March 1999 01:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Amar Seth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Madhavan
The basic requirement for the internal auditors is that they must be trained and shall be qualified auditors. In other words it means that the auditors after the training must be evaluated and only those who pass the specified test become qualified. You are required to keep the records of qualified auditors and they may be even given a certificate of qualification.

My personal experience is that auditing is quite a skill which is acquired over a period of time and experience coupled with the aptitude for finding the facts having positive attitude. You may like to combine carrying out of internal audits using exrenal souce auditors alongwith internal resources for developing in future.

However, I am not sure on which requirements the registrar raised the NCR, as long as you have the records of trained auditors and ther being qualified.

I hope it helps.

amarseth@hotmail.com

IP: Logged

John C
Forum Contributor

Posts: 134
From:Cork City, Ireland
Registered: Nov 98

posted 29 March 1999 08:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for John C   Click Here to Email John C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Madhavan,
Regards internal auditor qualification, your documented process has a dual function;
1) It must convince an observer that the internal auditor has a Îhigh enoughâ qualification to carry out the task.
2) It must limit the goal or scope of the audit in order to ensure that the auditorâs qualification is not overstretched.
ISO 10011 goes a long way to covering all situations so, as a blanket statement of training, you are setting a very ambitious goal. You could stand by your intention to meet the requirements of ISO 10011, but you would have to show documented evidence that you have done so. In such a situation, I would bet on your registrar to win round 2.
It would be better to consider the internal auditor resource available to you, decide what they are capable of, and write up the audit qualification and objective accordingly.
My own situation is a good example;
Some auditors are asked to carry out a simple comparison between what they see and what is written down. Others, who are qualified to do so, are also expected to evaluate the effectiveness of the activity and assess how it fits into the overall process.
rgds, John C

IP: Logged

chen
Forum Contributor

Posts: 19
From:dongguan,guangdong,p.r.china
Registered: Nov 98

posted 05 April 1999 09:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chen   Click Here to Email chen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
the qualification requirements of internal auditor are defined by your company but need
to meet the minimum requirments of 4.18-training of ISO 9001.
i think the minimum requiremnets are:
1) appropriate education
2) and/or experience

we defined the qualification requirements
as working years,education background and training results(internal or external).

i think all of this are decided by yourself.

for your reference only.

have a nice day. apr.,06/1999.

IP: Logged

Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

Posts: 4119
From:West Chester, OH, USA
Registered:

posted 05 April 1999 10:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Chen:

Thank you for your contribution!

IP: Logged

All times are Eastern Standard Time (USA)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply Hop to:

Contact Us | The Elsmar Cove Home Page

Your Input Into These Forums Is Appreciated! Thanks!


Main Site Search
Y'All Come Back Now, Ya Hear?
Powered by FreeBSD!Made With A Mac!Powered by Apache!