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Author Topic:   Audit Checklists
Kevin Mader
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posted 21 June 1999 09:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin Mader   Click Here to Email Kevin Mader     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dawn,

Try using flow charts as part of the audit process. Look for pauses and redundancy in the charts (i.e. did you have to repeat a step or did something remain stagnant)? As a matter of general commenting in the Audit Report, a statement should be made to inform the auditee of your discovery. From there, the auditee may use this information to improve the process, hence making the operation increase in value. Remember that auditors are interested in compliance to the program, but they are also interested in the effectiveness of the program too.

Regards,

Kevin

Back to the group...

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Howard Atkins
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posted 22 June 1999 01:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Howard Atkins   Click Here to Email Howard Atkins     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One of the subjects that I have not seen covered here is the fact that checklists show proof of "planning audits".
We write checklists based on our procedures for our own guidance but in our procedure we have written that "according to the auditor's judgement he can ask more or other questions. We then write a report using the questions as headings. The creation of a checklist shows planning and refreshes the auditor on the purpose of the audit. It is also possible to add other questions based on incidents that have happened.

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barb butrym
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posted 22 June 1999 09:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for barb butrym   Click Here to Email barb butrym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Way back we did one on planning..Marc even has a couple plan things in the PDF ZONE. Things to include on a list are any followup/reviews of past actions from CA/PA, customer complaints, n/c material/process stuff, etc. observations from audits, as well as findings from audit reports (internal and otherwise)...
I typically include alot more in case a re-assignmant of auditors happes during the process, so work is not duplicated..my planning/status check list is /pdf_files/QF317-2.pdf in the pdf zone if you are interested...also include an input space on area check lists for info from the reviews.

Administrator Note: Hyperlink to barb's form added. I like barb's form. I also prefer, and use, copies of procedures as barb was writing about earlier in this thread. When using the 'copy of procedure' method you can come close to the 'check mark' audit, IMHO.

[This message has been edited by admin (edited 12 July 1999).]

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spenceat
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posted 11 July 1999 10:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spenceat   Click Here to Email spenceat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have recently started as a QA Manager and one of the first objectives I was asked to do was to produce an Intenal Audit Program.

One of my concerns was what is the best method while auditing a process or function, do I use a standrd set of questions on a checklist or do I use my own initiative.

After reading the above replies, it seems to me the best route forward is to use a procedure, make and ask questions relavant to that process or function and keep as objective evidence.

Since my internal auditing skills are limited, is there any best way of ensuring while using procedures as a form of checklist, the SCOPE of my internal audit schedules is still satisfying ISO requirements?

Andy

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barb butrym
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posted 12 July 1999 02:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for barb butrym   Click Here to Email barb butrym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
there is much todo about that question andy....but let me add my 2 cents here before the group gets fired up.

Perform the audit to the procedures, then that done, answer the canned questions from what you observed/noted while auditing. Your audit trail, over time and experience, will have the details you need to determine whether the System is functioning properly. The audit trail is key. You should be able to recreate..many months later...the situations noted, both conforming and not. That and a cross reference of elements to areas will provide you all the information you need, of course that assumes (arrrrhhh I hate that word)the documentation has covered the shalls in the first place and has been properly cross referenced.

Add to the schedule... the 20 elements, then the scope of taht audit is to review the findings from all the audits in that element..for instance. Training....review all area audits for findings on training issues. I do this best with a report cover sheet (electronic) that has classifiations of findings, those include things like training, traceability, inspection status, stats, doc control, equipment, records, repeat occurrances, previous CAs issued/closed....what ever works, serves a quick reference for Management Review as well. This came from a retention report for the DoD I used to have to do, and adapted it to ISO.

[This message has been edited by barb butrym (edited 12 July 1999).]

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Kevin Mader
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posted 12 July 1999 03:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin Mader   Click Here to Email Kevin Mader     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Andy,

Welcome to the mix! As a suggestion, I would recommend that you read a book on auditing if this is all new to you. I think you will find that the auditing technique is a great way to learn about the organization and quality standards. The book I would recommend is The Quality Audit, by Mills.

Regards,

Kevin

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barb butrym
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posted 12 July 1999 11:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for barb butrym   Click Here to Email barb butrym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OH KEVIN....I disagree on the book to read. I think Mills is too deep for the novice, tough to get into.... And Arter....

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spenceat
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posted 12 July 1999 05:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spenceat   Click Here to Email spenceat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have referenced several books and agree with Barb.
i.e. management Audits.

I am already Lead Auditor trained and due to attend the course to become TickIT auditor trained, any advice on this course?

Andy

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Kevin Mader
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posted 12 July 1999 11:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin Mader   Click Here to Email Kevin Mader     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Barb,

I had a feeling that you would recommend Arter. I must admit that I haven't read Arter, however I do recall you mentioning that Arter had a hand in creating the ASQs CQA exam. As such, I can't draw a good comparison. Although I did not find Mills to difficult a read, the topic can be somewhat dry. Perhaps I have been reading technical books waaaaaaay to long and my senses have been dulled.

Andy,

Barb is a good source for Auditor Training questions, so I'll leave your question to her.

Regards to both,

Kevin

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barb butrym
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posted 13 July 1999 06:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for barb butrym   Click Here to Email barb butrym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What course are you taking, and who with?

If its a lead auditor with TickIT focus, it won't be much more than the QSLA was except instead of the standard, it adds TickIT details as well to that portion. So maybe 2 days with some new material mixed in, the rest is the same.

TickIT isn't my expertise......so I have no tips for you, except don't add more into it than is really there....As with everything else, you need facts for a finding....don't be lead down the path...

Haven't read Arter's new release, so I can only go by his first one...which was simple black and white.

Mills is Ok for you serious guys......LOL

BArb

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Kevin Mader
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posted 13 July 1999 07:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin Mader   Click Here to Email Kevin Mader     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hahaha!!!!! Hopefully not too serious! I like to think I have a good sense of humor.

I read the Wortman study guide as well. I found that tho be a pretty in depth overview but it lacked the detail I was looking for. I selected Mills at random. I guess I could have done worse (or maybe not?).

Back to the group...

Kevin

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barb butrym
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posted 13 July 1999 10:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for barb butrym   Click Here to Email barb butrym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I had to use Mills for a college auditing course text once...cause 2nd edition was out of print, and the 3rd wasn't readily available from Quality Press and we ran out of time......what a nightmare.... the information was Ok....and if you are fresh, I suppose the read isn't bad...but the class...like me..had already put in a days work....I had to come up with massive handouts to cover the material cause they just didn't get it from him..in the end we threw the book aside and went with my handouts...tough lesson to learn. So thats why I steer clear of "encyclopedia" type reading... I am a hands on, case study....do it to learn it, get right to the point ...kind of instructor. Roll up my sleeves and get into the mud, if you will. I used Mills for the CQA years ago, and as a look up reference it was fine...but not a straight read....for me.

So you are not a serious type, Kevin? Ha ha.. I bet you have a very serious side when you want to. I guess we all do.....when we hit the tight buttons.

Andy, we aren't helping you here with our book reviews.....what do you need?

barb

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Kevin Mader
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posted 14 July 1999 12:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin Mader   Click Here to Email Kevin Mader     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Barb,

I had to pick the clown face icon as it is more fitting to my informal side (which I try to be in most of the time). You're right on the buttons. I notice that sometimes when I need to turn on the "serious" side, some folks are suprised to see it in me (especially if they have never met me before).

Yes, we are doing the book review thing here. Interesting point that you bring up. As it would be, at the time of my reading Mill's text, I was taking a primer course for the CQA, which was filled with handouts and debate (both of which complimented the reading I think). Perhaps the fact that these events occurred at the same time made the reading easier (?). As I read it from time to time, I don't find the verbiage difficult. Then again, my brain may be fried and I would find cutting the lawn with a pair of hand shears entertaining (LOL).

Regards,

Kevin

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