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  Wanta Be An Auditor?

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Author Topic:   Wanta Be An Auditor?
Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

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From:West Chester, OH, USA
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posted 13 July 1998 08:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm not an auditor so there's not much I can say here right now, but this post may serve to 'start' the forum off.

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barb butrym
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posted 14 July 1998 08:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for barb butrym   Click Here to Email barb butrym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Auditor occupations,eh? Thankless jobs..LOL

Actually auditing is a mindset. You can teach just so much, the rest needs to be in your blood. An inquisitive mind, a strong will,and a poker face smile.

There are 2nd & 3rd party auditors and of course the 1st party Company/Corporate auditor. And last but not least the consultant that thinks he can audit.

Been there, done that....anyone want to hear the war stories?

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Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

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From:West Chester, OH, USA
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posted 15 July 1998 07:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I started this forum because I get lots of e-mail asking "How do I get into auditing?" and such.

As far as war stories - hey - go ahead. You might want to start a new topic with a relevant subject!

Yes - auditing does have an 'art' element.

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barb butrym
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From:South Central Massachusetts
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posted 16 July 1998 07:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for barb butrym   Click Here to Email barb butrym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
we'll save the war stories till we need a laugh.

Lets talk about getting into auditing. i started as an internal auditor before they really had a name. Defense requirement. Started going out just looking around,with the mil standard in my hand. I got good at it....stopped some heavy stuff before it became a big issue. was thirsty for knowledge about it, did the CQA thing, but back then there wasn't even a prep course. So I wrote one, and brought along 4 co-workers. Soon got the eye of the corporation, and moved up to corporate audit coordinator. Just had a knack for it, and it was soon recognized.

Now things are different, there are courses out there..most just common sense plus IRCA/RAB required details. I now tutor the registered courses. But my love is auditing. And teaching the 'value added' audit techniques, 'cause I can watch the auditor develop, and then perform.

You need to develop a technique that works for you before you can "do auditing" as a profession. So grab a procedure and get out there in the trenches...make your mind work and see if you have the basic personality and inquisitive mind. You can audit anything, and a good auditor does just that, audits everything. In my class they do a flow chart on a simple every day task (ie making coffee or changing a flat tire) and we then audit that.

Check back for step 2 if you enjoyed your self.......Pay and time away from home is not worth it if you do not ENJOY it.

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cacjr
Lurker (<10 Posts)

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From:MA
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posted 17 July 1998 02:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cacjr   Click Here to Email cacjr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I can agree with what you said about "in your blood" - I too came up through the ranks, started as an internal auditor, had a knack for the objective testing of the written word, and soon was teaching the CQA materials to would be auditors.

It is very rewarding to objectively audit a process or a system and uncover previously unseen opportunities for improvement.

My Biggest regret as a Management Representative is that I can't do much auditing.

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barb butrym
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posted 18 July 1998 04:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for barb butrym   Click Here to Email barb butrym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
go the registered auditor route, and you have to do xx audite to maintain, and the company will support you as part of your job...enrichment. or do a co-op with other companies in your area as a resourse and audit each other....keeps your mind in it so to speak

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Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

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From:West Chester, OH, USA
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posted 13 March 1999 08:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This has been a dull forum.... Guess no one is interested in occupations in auditing....

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barb butrym
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posted 13 March 1999 10:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for barb butrym   Click Here to Email barb butrym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ya.....seems like that...so where will all the auditors come from, new registrations, surveillance.....each company adds more need. A company of 100 people needs 4 audit days, plus a year..a registrar with 100 companies is already needing 2 with no new business !!! think of it.

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John C
Forum Contributor

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From:Cork City, Ireland
Registered: Nov 98

posted 25 March 1999 06:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for John C   Click Here to Email John C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't find it dull. In a couple of months I'll be leaving my comfortable employment and going out looking for consultancy and contract work. I will probably be depending on auditing and audit training to get my business going and keep the head above water. But I don't consider myself to be a natural auditor - certainly not in the terms that the people who gave me my lead assessor training and qualification ten years ago. They had it down as an art. They were concerned about finding what was hidden behind what people say and what was going on from people's body language - knowing what is going on behind the scenes. I have been inclined to disparage this approach in the past but, as I've said before, the prospective move out on my own has knocked some of the brashness out of me. I'm not a people person and I'm not a salesman. I prefer machines, if the truth was known - to work with I mean, not to take out to dinner. I watch registrar auditors going around asking questions and I wonder how they keep everything in their mind and whether they should. When I go to do an audit I pull down the documentation from the server and do an adequacy and compliance evaluation. Then I go to the auditee and watch what they do and look at the records they have regards what they have done. I really don't put much store on what they say, other than to ask them what they do and does it match the documentation.
Very mechanical. Certainly not art. In fact, I call myself a process engineer and see this, along with upgrading the process as process engineering. ISO10011 patches in the administration around the simple assessment that I do, but it doesn't add anything about the vague skills and the artistic part of auditing.
I'm missing something, I know. But what exactly is it and what percentage contribution does it make to the end result?
rgds, John C

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barb butrym
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posted 25 March 1999 10:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for barb butrym   Click Here to Email barb butrym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you were a natural auditor, you would have a different outlook on all this. Some people just see it as a job, some actually enjoy it. The ones that enjoy it are truely looking for evidence of compliance, NOT nonconformance. And those that enjoy it, actually believe it is a value added activity.
I for one enjoy it.....lets have a vote, who likes being an auditor?

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Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

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From:West Chester, OH, USA
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posted 26 March 1999 12:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Audit on!!!!

------------------
Marc T. Smith
What / Who is Da Cheech? --->>> http://www.dross.com/cheechwizard/
513 7773394

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John C
Forum Contributor

Posts: 134
From:Cork City, Ireland
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posted 26 March 1999 09:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for John C   Click Here to Email John C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You're right Marc, I was.
Thanks for the cartoon. It's really great. Ofen happened to me.
rgds, John C

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Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

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From:West Chester, OH, USA
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posted 26 March 1999 10:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For those of you who have found this thread (god knows why I'm writing this in the Occupations in Auditing forum - I guess because no one comes here....), I have used the Cheech Wiz handle for many years. Vaughn Bode was my idol years ago (back when no one knew what it was you were smoking...). Vaughn died - damn, what, late 70's or early 1980's. I followed his Cheech Wizard series for years including National Lampoon's which carried it (back when National Lampoon was National Lampoon). You remember, don't you? Back when the Stones and all of us were young... Back when there really were Animal Houses at colleges and universities!!! We had one where I went to college - in fact I often visited... Which may be telling. They really were shut down and essentially kicked off campus in like maybe my senior year. They were some real partying folks!

I had a BBS online back from 1987 through the end of 1990. It was, of course, a pirate BBS run on an Amiga. I had a whopping 40 megs online!!! I called the BBS the Cheech Wizard Memorial Disk Preserve. I had over 400 floppies as well (counted in 1992 when I sold the Amiga stuff - a stupid move - nice machine).

I really (no kidding ) felt a loss when Mr. Bode died. Laura Nero is gone. The best Allman brother bit the dust years ago - Long Live Eat A Peach! Damn - this is becoming a lament.

Anyway. Only the BOLDest of you should follow the link to the Cheech Wizard site. It is not for the faint hearted or the unenlightened. If you don't like nude cartoon bodies (tasteful, but nude) and appreciate somewhat crude humour, Don't click the link!

You hear talk and read things about people taking on a personna on the internet. Well, Cheech Wizard has been my nick, my handle, my personna, if you will, for years. We all have our dreams, dammit!

Yes - I'm a dirty old man from the word go. I was a dirty young man, too, so - well, no change there in my life... If that means any thing.... And when I die it will be Lucy, not Rosebud.

In so far as auditing for a living goes (to keep 'on topic'), I need to travel less....

[This message has been edited by Marc Smith (edited 03-26-99).]

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Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

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From:West Chester, OH, USA
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posted 26 March 1999 10:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Forget Auditing! I want to be a Carnival Barker!!!

[This message has been edited by Marc Smith (edited 03-26-99).]

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barb butrym
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posted 26 March 1999 09:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for barb butrym   Click Here to Email barb butrym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
headed off to see the wizard.......

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Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

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From:West Chester, OH, USA
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posted 26 March 1999 09:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Your're off to see the wizard?

The Wonderful Cheech Wizard of Odd!!!

Long Live Da Hat!!!

[This message has been edited by Marc Smith (edited 03-26-99).]

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Don Winton
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From:Tullahoma, TN
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posted 27 March 1999 12:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Don Winton   Click Here to Email Don Winton     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Yes - I'm a dirty old man from the word go.

Yea, I am with you. Love the cartoons.

quote:
Forget Auditing! I want to be a Carnival Barker!!!

Let me know when you get there. I will join ya. Love it.

Regards,
Don

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Randy
Forum Wizard

Posts: 228
From:Barstow, CA, USA
Registered: Jun 1999

posted 02 July 1999 12:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randy   Click Here to Email Randy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm an auditor (EMS-PA RAB#E052340) but the registrars say that I'm not qualified because I'm not a lead. I can't figure out whether all of these existing EMS-LA's appeared out of thin air or popped out of chickens rearend. When the 14K standard came about there weren't a whole lot of people that had enough previous experiance to qualify under the existing requirements to be a LA. Where did they come from?

I'd like to do auditing. I'd like to do anything related to the field that I spent a lot of money to get qualified to work in.

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Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

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From:West Chester, OH, USA
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posted 05 July 1999 06:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What's the EMS stand for?

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barb butrym
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posted 06 July 1999 10:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for barb butrym   Click Here to Email barb butrym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
environmental management system

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barb butrym
Forum Contributor

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From:South Central Massachusetts
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posted 06 July 1999 10:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for barb butrym   Click Here to Email barb butrym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Randy, if you want experience you have to go to the UK at your expense (if you have contacts there) or do it free......unless you know someone. Perhaps you need to persue lead auditor status on its own, then add the EMS credientials. IRCA is alot easier to work with than RAB, as it has more experience and understands the real world.

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barb butrym
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posted 06 July 1999 10:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for barb butrym   Click Here to Email barb butrym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
oh ya...forgot ... a good approach to it would be to offer your clients to the registrar in exchange for help in your development.

They need clients more than they need trainee auditors.....

[This message has been edited by barb butrym (edited 06 July 1999).]

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Randy
Forum Wizard

Posts: 228
From:Barstow, CA, USA
Registered: Jun 1999

posted 02 June 2000 02:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randy   Click Here to Email Randy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Howdy All,

Just wanted to inform you readers that I just mailed off my packet to the RAB for advancement to Lead Auditor (14K). It turns out that the EHS management system that I have been working under and administering for almost 4 years is an Equivalent Standard to ISO 14000 according to the RAB.

The whole thing weighed about 2 lbs because we updated the original 1992 version in 1996 and a new copy was required and I had 12 pages of audit logs.

Complicating things is the fact that almost none of the original auditee contacts from 1997 and 1998 is still around, so any verification done by the RAB will be like pulling teeth out of a chicken (these folks we have now can't remember what happened this morning, much less 1 or 2 or 3 years ago).

One thing is guaranteed...the RAB will accept the money I sent.

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Charles Wunderlich
unregistered
posted 11 June 2000 03:12 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just finished the ISO 9000 Lead Auditor course. One of the problems seems to be getting the audit experience to become a LA. I found a group here in Dallas, that provides the experience to become a LA. Anyone looking to get witnessed audits may want to check youru area to see if you have any simular programs. http://www.p6c.com/ASQ.html

CW

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