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Author Topic:   Additional Quality Systems
Karla Chaparro
Lurker (<10 Posts)

Posts: 2
From:Cd. Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico
Registered: May 2000

posted 12 May 2000 05:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Karla Chaparro   Click Here to Email Karla Chaparro     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My company has an additional quality system (Divisional) from qs-9000, and we have the additional requirements documented in the Qs-9000 procedures. Now my question is: Does the external qs-9000 auditor has the right to audit those extra requirements since they are written in our procedures?

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matthew evans
Forum Contributor

Posts: 25
From:England
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 15 May 2000 07:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for matthew evans   Click Here to Email matthew evans     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think the first question to ask is do the additional requirements to your system come under the scope of your registration. If they do then I think the auditor has the right to audit the additional elements as you have included them in your procedures. If they fall outside the scope then you could argue that he cannot audit a system that is not covered in your scope of registration.
Hope this helps a little.

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Don Reid
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Posts: 68
From:North Walsham, Norfolk, England
Registered: May 2000

posted 15 May 2000 07:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Don Reid   Click Here to Email Don Reid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I tend to agree with Matthew. We have several additional non QA procedures wrapped up in one procedures manaul and I would not want an assessor/auditor to evaluate them.

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barb butrym
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From:South Central Massachusetts
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posted 15 May 2000 07:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for barb butrym   Click Here to Email barb butrym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
if they link to the system its auditable..no auditor will go off looking for additions, but if he is lead there by procedures...he goes

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Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

Posts: 4119
From:West Chester, OH, USA
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posted 16 May 2000 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you write that you do something, it is auditable whether it has anything to do with any spec or not. If you have a procedure which, in part, reads: "...Receive material and then stick your finger up your butt for 15 seconds..." it is auditable ("Show me...." comes to mind right now from an auditor's perspective...). If you say: "...Test to ANSI 1234546..." you better have a current copy of it and test to it.

You say you do it - it's auditable. If it's written in your QS9000 procedures, then it's auditable.

Got an example for us to consider?

[This message has been edited by Marc Smith (edited 16 May 2000).]

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James Gutherson
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From:Sydney, NSW, Australia
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posted 17 May 2000 01:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for James Gutherson   Click Here to Email James Gutherson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Don, why don't you want procedures in a procedures manual looked at? Do you actually do these procedures, or are they simply words to fill a gap? This scares me a lot.

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matthew evans
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Posts: 25
From:England
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 17 May 2000 03:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for matthew evans   Click Here to Email matthew evans     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In addition to my original answer consider a company that has ISO9000, QS9000 and ISO14001 (Environmental Management System) and uses one procedure manual to cover all three standards. When an auditor comes to audit say ISO,QS9000 he will only cover those two standards and not the ISO14001 because this is the scope of his audit, and your registration, and not to cover ISO14001.

See what you think about that.

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Laura M
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Posts: 299
From:Rochester, NY US
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 17 May 2000 08:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Laura M   Click Here to Email Laura M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wouldn't think the audit trail using the QSA(for QS9000) would lead them there. We had an auditor "stumble" on a procedure that was relavant to the company, but didn't fulfill any QS9000 requirements and he basically said "no, I don't care about that."
Can't even remember what it was, but if the auditor "sticks" to the QSA the other company procedures shouldn't come up. I'm thinking it was something like a Greivance procedure and how to handle the paperwork being that it was a UAW shop.

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Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

Posts: 4119
From:West Chester, OH, USA
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posted 17 May 2000 05:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Laura M:

I'm thinking it was something like a Greivance procedure and how to handle the paperwork being that it was a UAW shop.


If does not affect the quality of the product it's none of the auditor's business. A grievance procedure is not auditable. That's why financials are not looked at.

However, that said, almost all systems can be argued to affect quality.

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