The Elsmar Cove Business Standards Discussion Forums More Free Files Forum Discussion Thread Post Attachments Listing Elsmar Cove Discussion Forums Main Page
Welcome to what was The Original Cayman Cove Forums!
This thread is carried over and continued in the Current Elsmar Cove Forums

Search the Elsmar Cove!

Wooden Line
This is a "Frozen" Legacy Forum.
Most links on this page do NOT work.
Discussions since 2001 are HERE

Owl Line
The New Elsmar Cove Forums   The New Elsmar Cove Forums
  Auditing
  Corrective actions

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Corrective actions
Iceman
unregistered
posted 23 May 2001 09:26 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We are reviewing our internal audit process. One thing to consider is when to start a formal corrective action as a follow-up action after audits. Is it advisable for all nonconformities, or just when a quick fix is not achievable? Comments?
Johann
Icelandic Aluminium Co. Ltd.
Iceland

IP: Logged

Michael T
Forum Contributor

Posts: 16
From:Cleveland, Ohio
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 23 May 2001 10:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Michael T   Click Here to Email Michael T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Iceman,

We have a follow-up or "audit" on each Corrective and Preventative Action item brought up, no matter how minute. It is actually part of the Request for Action (RFA) form we use to log and track CAR's & PAR's. Upon completion of the CAR/PAR, the RFA is logged into the system and I assign a follow-up date. This follow-up date is based upon the nature of the CAR/PAR and is designed to be timely, yet allow enough time for the action to be properly and thoroughly tested. If, during the follow-up, further corrective/preventative action is required, the matter is brought back before the Management Team or individual assiged to develop the resolution to the situation for further action.

Hope this helps.

Cheers!

Mike

IP: Logged

Fire Girl
Forum Contributor

Posts: 41
From:Orillia, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 23 May 2001 10:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fire Girl   Click Here to Email Fire Girl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Iceman

I believe you are asking about findings from internal audits and how they are handled. For any findings from Internal Auditing we issue a CPAR. There is a (reasonable) proposed close-out date. The Corrective or Preventive Action is checked for effectiveness. If it is still ineffective, it goes back to the Quality Board for re-evaluation. My personal feeling is that if I find problems while I'm doing internal auditing, chances are it is a problem. You might as well deal with it while it is a small problem, rather than wait until it is huge and your registrar finds it!

Hope this helps!

IP: Logged

Al Dyer
Forum Wizard

Posts: 622
From:Lapeer, MI USA
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 23 May 2001 12:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Al Dyer   Click Here to Email Al Dyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Go for it Fire Girl!

ASD...

IP: Logged

Froggy
Lurker (<10 Posts)

Posts: 2
From:Harrisburg, PA, USA
Registered: May 2001

posted 23 May 2001 03:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Froggy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Iceman, I asked our external auditor the exact same question (do we have to write up "everything" esp. if it can be fixed immediately). His answer to me was, if you don't write up every one, how will you know whether or not you have a problem. I have informed my team of internal auditors to write up everything, in the hopes that as problems are corrected, we will eventually see a decrease in the amount of problems we have to write up.....

IP: Logged

energy
Forum Contributor

Posts: 228
From:New Britain, CT
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 23 May 2001 03:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for energy   Click Here to Email energy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fire Girl,
Can you give an example of an ineffective CPAR? Does this determination occur on the date the CPAR is due? I have always had a hard time explaining effectiveness of a Corrective Action, other than it was corrected. Are we talking about repeat N/C's?
energy

IP: Logged

Dan Larsen
Forum Contributor

Posts: 137
From:Sussex, WI
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 23 May 2001 05:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dan Larsen   Click Here to Email Dan Larsen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Iceman,

I've used a system where the lead auditor (generally the Management Rep) has discriminatory authority to either issue an NCR or a "notice of issue". The CAR followed the classic approach for corrective action, the notice of issue was documented in an audit report that the auditee signed but a formal documented resolution was not required. The MR kept track of the notices and made them available to the auditors for subsequent audits. In many cases, the audit frequency was adjusted if a notice was issued.

We used a major/minor classification system to decide whether an NCR or notice would be desireable.

I typically use this type of system early in an implementation to minimize the amount of paperwork that could flood the system as the system gets up to speed. Many times, after about a year or so, it's almost easier to issue an NCR for all findings.

An additional note: the discretionary system was accepted easily by one registration auditor, but a second registration auditor felt it left room for abuse; he suggested "a finding is a finding" and an NCR should be issued for all findings.

IP: Logged

Fire Girl
Forum Contributor

Posts: 41
From:Orillia, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 24 May 2001 06:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fire Girl   Click Here to Email Fire Girl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Energy

How you doin'?

Have you ever seen my CPAR form? There is a place to write a corrective or preventive action. Below that is a space to have the department manager to sign off that the corrective or preventive action has been implemented. Under that I get the QA Manager to sign off that the action was effective. Essentially, if you go back to do a 'follow-up audit' and the problem still exists, your corr/preve action was not effective. Go back to the ol' drawing board and figure out something else. Why, haven't you ever had this happen to you?

IP: Logged

energy
Forum Contributor

Posts: 228
From:New Britain, CT
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 24 May 2001 09:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for energy   Click Here to Email energy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fire Girl,
Yes it has happened to me. It was a Customer Audit in a facility such as yours. It involved "handling" problems of various brackets that had to have a certain finish. The auditor asked us to explain how our corrective/preventive action for these N/C's was effective. I told him that when we get this type of rejection, I search the data base by part number and if that particular part number doesn't appear, it was effective. The answer stunk, but he just moved on to something else. I felt that was going to hammer us good. But, I think he cut us some slack because it's such a difficult thing to determine effectiveness.
I'd love to see your CPAR form.
energy

[This message has been edited by energy (edited 24 May 2001).]

IP: Logged

Dan Larsen
Forum Contributor

Posts: 137
From:Sussex, WI
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 24 May 2001 04:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dan Larsen   Click Here to Email Dan Larsen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Energy,

Unless I missed something, I think your measure of effectivity sounds just fine for the situation you corrected. The issue is rejects of a particular type/part. You correct it and can demonstrate that there are no rejects of the type/part. Sounds effective to me!

IP: Logged

energy
Forum Contributor

Posts: 228
From:New Britain, CT
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 25 May 2001 08:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for energy   Click Here to Email energy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dan,
My concern was that we showed quite a few "handling" root causes for nicks scratches for several different part numbers. It pointed to an overall problem with handling. The company just wasn't going to compartmentize 2000 parts on an order to eliminate 25 or so rejects. That was my concern. Hey, if it sounded good to you and to the auditor maybe I was was being a little anal. Thanks for the response
energy

[This message has been edited by energy (edited 25 May 2001).]

IP: Logged

barb butrym
Forum Contributor

Posts: 637
From:South Central Massachusetts
Registered:

posted 07 June 2001 09:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for barb butrym   Click Here to Email barb butrym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It would be a great answer (if it was a global handling issue) to say you searched defect codes for handling defects....... for part specific ...you did fine.

IP: Logged

All times are Eastern Standard Time (USA)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply Hop to:

Contact Us | The Elsmar Cove Home Page

Your Input Into These Forums Is Appreciated! Thanks!


Main Site Search
Y'All Come Back Now, Ya Hear?
Powered by FreeBSD!Made With A Mac!Powered by Apache!