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  ISO 9001/4:2000
  Business Plan ISO 9000:2000

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Author Topic:   Business Plan ISO 9000:2000
ISO GUY
Forum Contributor

Posts: 81
From:Rochester, NY
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 14 April 2000 03:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ISO GUY   Click Here to Email ISO GUY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"They are going to fall flat on their faces, who are they to say we need a Busniess Plan, it will never go thru it will be changed before it released!!!!!" That is the President of the company I work for saying this. Our Management Rep. and myself tried to explain that if we want to comply with ISO 9000:2000 they will need one. I tried to break it down simply by saying it would be a good idea just so you can plan the direction of the company, and see where you are going, or where you would like to go. But according to the owners of te company they feel it is pointless. Has anyone else had a negative reaction from owner of the company you work for on this requirement? Let me know what you have run into.

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BWoods
Forum Contributor

Posts: 44
From:Britton, SD, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 14 April 2000 06:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BWoods   Click Here to Email BWoods     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, most of my problems have fallen under one of two categories:

[1] It's a great idea .... I'll get to it when I have time (guess when that is).

[2] More commonly: We have a business plan but it doesn't match out is outlined in QS or whatever. And if we feel this is what we need, that is what we need.

It isn't so much having a business plan. It is just that each company wants to do it strickly their way and not have any guidelines handed to them by a "spec writer"

That has been my experience.

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Jim Biz
Forum Wizard

Posts: 275
From:ILLINOIS
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 14 April 2000 07:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Biz   Click Here to Email Jim Biz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We have a Business Plan - A generic form filled out during a meeting -- Ahhh back in 1996 I believe.. I have a record of it somewhere How "relevant" is it when we decide to change business directions/decisions every 6 months? I'll leave that up to you to decide upon ... But do we have one -SURE

I would think YES they are a good idea IF the management folks that were responsible for them
1) Knew what they were
2) Maintained the intent of the plan
3) Updated as business environment and
planning decisions changed.

All too often this is not the case -- do you suppose the requirement of having a Business plan will make better managers of those who do not already know how to use them?

[This message has been edited by Jim Biz (edited 14 April 2000).]

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Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

Posts: 4119
From:West Chester, OH, USA
Registered:

posted 15 April 2000 07:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Are you interested in sharing your form with us?

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Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

Posts: 4119
From:West Chester, OH, USA
Registered:

posted 15 April 2000 07:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ISO GUY:

They are going to fall flat on their faces, who are they to say we need a Busniess Plan, it will never go thru it will be changed before it released!!!!!


I first ran into this with a QS-9000 implementation a few years back. I left the office and got on with my work. When the preassessment took place and they wanted to discuss management review the plant manager told the guy to go bite an egg in so many words. The auditor said no problem and finished the audit. During the final review the auditor announced the findings, including the management review 'problem'.

The bottom line is I didn't fight with the plant manager - I simply told him at the time we spoke (6 months before the preassessment) that this was not an option.) I let the 'big gun' (auditor) do the convincing.

That said, I saw that in QS-9000. Where (what paragraph) do you see the requirement for a business plan in ISO9001:2000?

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ALM
Forum Contributor

Posts: 80
From:Philadelphia
Registered: Jun 1999

posted 19 April 2000 03:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ALM   Click Here to Email ALM     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My Senior Management was skeptical for a long time but knew that they would be "forced" to do it for QS.

They, surprisingly, found it to be a worthwhile and effective experience and is now a regular part of their meetings. Remember, the content of the Business Plan is not subject to audit... (which strikes me as odd)... it is just a requirement that the process is undertaken and that relevant parts are communicated to the Company. (Documented Evidence!)

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barb butrym
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Posts: 637
From:South Central Massachusetts
Registered:

posted 20 April 2000 11:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for barb butrym   Click Here to Email barb butrym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Like so many requirements ....the activity of going through creating the business plan and reacting to it is where the value is...not in an outsider judging it. Make conscious decisions...

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ISO GUY
Forum Contributor

Posts: 81
From:Rochester, NY
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 20 April 2000 11:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ISO GUY   Click Here to Email ISO GUY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The bottom line is I didn't fight with the plant manager - I simply told him at the time we spoke (6 months before the preassessment) that this was not an option.) I let the 'big gun' (auditor) do the convincing.

I don't plan on fighiting with anyone on this. To tell you the truth at this point I really don't care. Upper Management doesn't support ISO, and on top of that I think our Resistrar really stinks!!!!! They did nothing when they werhere last. There was two of them here for 2 1/2 days and they never split up, as far as I am concerned they just went thru the montions. Our system is not going to get better if they just gloss over the system during the audits. I have gone as far as telling or customers that audit us what our problems are and beg them to write it in the report they send to us. I feel that is the only way at this point to get Management to listen. If the customer tells us to do it I can almost be sure we will. I suppose I could suggest switching registrars but the owners of the company would never ok it. They don't give a darn as long as we maintain our certification.

I guess some times you win and some times you lose, and this looks like a no win situation!

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isodog
unregistered
posted 20 April 2000 11:34 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A tough auditor is the Quality manager's best friend.
Business plan is NOT required in ISO 9000:2000, I wish it was.
Dave

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Christian Lupo
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Posts: 117
From:Auburn, NY
Registered:

posted 21 April 2000 08:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Christian Lupo   Click Here to Email Christian Lupo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
They, surprisingly, found it to be a worthwhile and effective experience and is now a regular part of their meetings. Remember, the content of the Business Plan is not subject to audit.

I experienced a situations similiar to this performing a QS-9000 audits. Most companies not familiar with business planning that needed QS-9000 certification, were brought "kicking and screaming" into the world of strategic business planning. I have had the fortune of going back to these companies years later, and found without exception that they were glad they had a business plan. ..... almost makes it all worthwhile

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Jim Biz
Forum Wizard

Posts: 275
From:ILLINOIS
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 21 April 2000 02:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Biz   Click Here to Email Jim Biz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And there are some that maybe would like to see old-style management types'

brought "kicking and screaming" into the world of understanding & focusing on overall Standards application for the good of all. Change is difficlt - and the value in it can not be found until the change is at least attempted...

Ps: very competitive hockey game last night - too bad someone had to be saddeled with a Loss...each team did themselves proud.

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Textileman
unregistered
posted 09 May 2000 11:03 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I always saw some synergy between business plan, company level data, and mgmt. rev. Company level data was the info on the scoreboard, business plan was the play book and mgmt review was the half time huddle.

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