The Elsmar Cove Business Standards Discussion Forums More Free Files Forum Discussion Thread Post Attachments Listing Elsmar Cove Discussion Forums Main Page
Welcome to what was The Original Cayman Cove Forums!
This thread is carried over and continued in the Current Elsmar Cove Forums

Search the Elsmar Cove!

Wooden Line
This is a "Frozen" Legacy Forum.
Most links on this page do NOT work.
Discussions since 2001 are HERE

Owl Line
The New Elsmar Cove Forums   The New Elsmar Cove Forums
  ISO 9001/4:2000
  ISO Certification

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   ISO Certification
Suz
unregistered
posted 15 June 2000 01:23 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello-
I came across this forum while searching for information on RAB (what I found here wasn't at all complimentary!). I work for a small company involved in alternative fuel technology, and until now, it has always been an R&D environment. As we move toward full production status and an IPO, the importance of having a QMS in place has hit the execs right between the eyes. I have a somewhat limited background in QA, but as a technical writer, the documentation will be a breeze for me, except for a couple of things:
1) With ISO9000:2000 still not released, is it possible to initiate a Quality System to the 2000 version?
2) Does anyone have any experience with/opinions of a consultant organization called California Manufacturing Technology Center (CMTC)? Would you recommend a consultant firm come in and do the entire QMS for a small company like mine?
Thanks!

IP: Logged

Jim Biz
Forum Wizard

Posts: 275
From:ILLINOIS
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 15 June 2000 02:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Biz   Click Here to Email Jim Biz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Suz - I've seen much discussion on wheather to implement the new standards now or not - the general opinion is Yes do it now... don't wait. especially if you are just starting out.

You are in a fairly good position to at least take the few upcomming changes into account.. and from a STRICT intrepretation viewpoint the new version will allow you to taylor your system to exclude or at least water down some current "shall do" items.

I believe the new 2000 update after 4-25-00 is in its FDIS phase (final draft Int. standards)& I've been deluged with training information from across the country..

Don't have any expierience with the consultant firm you mentioned - but if you need expert advise I'd quickly point you to the link at the top of the page that says "do you need consulting or training services fill in the form - I'm sure that Marc wouldn't point you in the wrong direction..

Regards
Jim

[This message has been edited by Jim Biz (edited 15 June 2000).]

IP: Logged

Thom Trimborn
Lurker (<10 Posts)

Posts: 3
From:Addison, Il, USA
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 15 June 2000 03:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Thom Trimborn   Click Here to Email Thom Trimborn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Suz,
For what it is worth, our registar just sent us a letter that they are willing to audit to the 2000 standard early this fall. They are strongly encouraging us to be audited to the new standard. Since you seem to be starting with a clean slate, I see no reason to write a QMS to the 1994 revision.

As far as consultants go, it has been my experiance that most registrars also provide consulting services. You need to have a partnership with your registrar. While ours has dinged us from time to time, their driving approach has been to make constructive observations. I'm sure many independant consulting firms are perfectly capable to get your system documented. Why not try 'one stop shopping"? It will probably save you money in the long run. Especially since, as you said, you are a small business. No matter what, make sure your system works for you. Using an off the shelf system will cause you nothing but problems. Good Luck.

IP: Logged

Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

Posts: 4119
From:West Chester, OH, USA
Registered:

posted 15 June 2000 10:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thom Trimborn:
....it has been my experiance that most registrars also provide consulting services. You need to have a partnership with your registrar.
I should hope you all know that a registrar providing consulting services and registration services to a client is a 'frowned upon' relationship. Perry Johnson does this through a 'business segregation' technicality - and they have been investigated for it as well. But then, that's Perry Johnson - not the best reputation around.

IP: Logged

Jim Biz
Forum Wizard

Posts: 275
From:ILLINOIS
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 16 June 2000 11:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Biz   Click Here to Email Jim Biz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Marc Smith:
hope you all know that a registrar providing consulting services and registration services to a client is a 'frowned upon' relationship.

Marc I agree --- never figured out how it could be done "successfully" kinda like the fox watching the hen-house.. IMHO This type of "relationship" would breakdown the objectivity and could really lead to registrars having "too much" influence in telling folks how to run their businesses...

NOTE: Edited for quote formatting.

[This message has been edited by Marc Smith (edited 24 June 2000).]

IP: Logged

isodog
Forum Contributor

Posts: 51
From:Vernon Hills, IL, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 19 June 2000 08:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for isodog   Click Here to Email isodog     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is not just frowned upon, it is blatently unethical. RAB has a (unenforced) rule against such arraingements. As noted, perry Johnson is the only registrat with cahones enough to thumb there noses at the RAB (the only thing I admire them for), but KPMG does the same thing under a thinly disguised second company.

More common, and also unethical, is the trainer that has a favorite registrar which they always reccomend. There is ALWAYS a quid pro quo arraingement as the registar knows this trainer is "selling their services.

It's a jungle out there!

Dave

IP: Logged

Christian Lupo
Forum Contributor

Posts: 117
From:Auburn, NY
Registered:

posted 20 June 2000 01:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Christian Lupo   Click Here to Email Christian Lupo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
never figured out how it could be done "successfully" kinda like the fox watching the hen-house..

Registrars are allowed to give "interpretation assistance" to a client. many people are of the opinion that this is a euphemism for consulting for example:


  • I have seen other companies I have audited use an Excel spreadsheet for a master list of documents....

This is allowed by RAB


  • What you need to do is use a Excel spreadsheet for your master list of documents...

Not allowed, and considered consulting. What's the difference? Just words

IP: Logged

Suzanne (aka Suz)
unregistered
posted 21 June 2000 01:09 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you for all the excellent input and advice. I think this forum will prove very helpful to me in setting up our Quality System.
I'm having problems, however with my password. The one emailed to me is not working....

IP: Logged

isodog
Forum Contributor

Posts: 51
From:Vernon Hills, IL, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 21 June 2000 11:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for isodog   Click Here to Email isodog     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is not fair, as Marc is providing the forum, but I provide ISO 9000:2000 preparation services to clients atound the USA. Contact me at kolinat@yahoo.com

IP: Logged

Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

Posts: 4119
From:West Chester, OH, USA
Registered:

posted 24 June 2000 01:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Christian Lupo:
Registrars are allowed to give "interpretation assistance" to a client. What's the difference? Just words
You're right. This only furthers my stance that much of all of this is now a word game, unfortunately.

[This message has been edited by Marc Smith (edited 24 June 2000).]

IP: Logged

Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

Posts: 4119
From:West Chester, OH, USA
Registered:

posted 24 June 2000 04:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Suzanne (aka Suz):
I'm having problems, however with my password. The one emailed to me is not working...
I take it this was solved by using a capital P (passwords are case sensitive). Let me know if you have any further problem(s).

IP: Logged

Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

Posts: 4119
From:West Chester, OH, USA
Registered:

posted 24 June 2000 04:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by isodog:
This is not fair, as Marc is providing the forum, but I provide ISO 9000:2000 preparation services to clients atound the USA.
I'm on my third implementation to the DIS . The first (to the draft as of June 1999) was successful and I have 2 in progress which will be complete this fall. The June 1999 registration was first audit successful - registered to the 1994 version but all documentation, including quality manual, was to the draft and was audited to that draft in addition to the base 1994 elements. As the final version comes out, all they have to do is lightly reword their quality manual (nothing was developed along the ISO structure so organization is not an issue). Let me know if you need any 'advice' from someone who has done it, isodog!

IP: Logged

All times are Eastern Standard Time (USA)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply Hop to:

Contact Us | The Elsmar Cove Home Page

Your Input Into These Forums Is Appreciated! Thanks!


Main Site Search
Y'All Come Back Now, Ya Hear?
Powered by FreeBSD!Made With A Mac!Powered by Apache!