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  ISO 9001/4:2000
  ISO 9001:2000 Transition Training (4.1)

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Author Topic:   ISO 9001:2000 Transition Training (4.1)
Oscar
Forum Contributor

Posts: 13
From:Brigham City, Utah, USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 24 July 2000 04:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Oscar   Click Here to Email Oscar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just returned from a Transition training class. This course emphasized the requirements of clause 4.1 which requires establishing, documenting, implementing, maintaining, and continually improving the QMS. The instructor suggested a flow chart as a method for defining the QMS your company uses and them expanding the chart to include criteria, methods, information, etc. and all requied by this clause. I would appreciate any comments relative to this area of the DIS soon to be FDIS.

The instructor identified this area as a key change in the standard and a good starting place for ensuring compliance to the revised standard.

Thanks

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Marc Smith
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From:West Chester, OH, USA
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posted 10 September 2000 10:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I missed this one in the fray somehow..

Anyway, I dont agree that there is much difference in the 4.1 requirements. You say: "...This course emphasized the requirements of clause 4.1 which requires establishing, documenting, implementing, maintaining, and continually improving the QMS."

Did they cite specifics? Only continuouus improvement is 'strengthened'.

I agree with flow charts. They're the way to go.

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Oscar
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From:Brigham City, Utah, USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 11 September 2000 12:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Oscar   Click Here to Email Oscar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This course emphasized that the new standard is structured to be business based rather than a quality standard. The new standard really tells companies how to run their business and 4.1 is the beginning point for this transition. The instructor recommended the flow charts be part of the Quality Manual as well as criteria, methods, objectives, measuring and monitoring, etc.

Any discussion would be appreciated.

Thanks

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Marc Smith
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posted 11 September 2000 12:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah - good rhetoric (changing from a quality standard to a business standard). Well, the bottom line is the basic requirements have not changed. 4.1 is just general requirements in the new 'standard'. If you are currently registered, you should have all this stuff already. Are you registered now or are you intending to register in the future? What's your current status?

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Oscar
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Posts: 13
From:Brigham City, Utah, USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 11 September 2000 03:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Oscar   Click Here to Email Oscar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We are currently registered by Det Norske Veritas (since 1994) so I have been waiting for information from them relative to the new standard and any interpretation that may be forthcomning.

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Marc Smith
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posted 11 September 2000 06:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would be surprised if you have to make any serious changes in your systems.

Take a read through www.cayman.27south.com/ISO_9K-2000-09-11.pdf and see if this answers some questions.

Let me know if you have any problem getting the document. It's on a test server here at the office -- not on the site server which I run my site on.

I would like to hear from others about the transition issue.

NOTE: This document is a 'temporary' document - I'll keep it posted for a few days, but it may not be there come the weekend.

[This message has been edited by Marc Smith (edited 11 September 2000).]

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Marc Smith
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posted 11 September 2000 09:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
By the way, have you read through Elsmar.com/pdf_files/ISO-Transi-N474.doc ?

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Laura M
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Posts: 299
From:Rochester, NY US
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 11 September 2000 10:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Laura M   Click Here to Email Laura M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Link worked. Doc looks interesting. I'm going to print it and see. I have customers that are interested in being QS9000 but know about ISO9000:2000. Want to plan on a 2001 audit, so QS kind of restricts to ISO 9000:1994

Go Browns!!!!!

Laura

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Oscar
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Posts: 13
From:Brigham City, Utah, USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 26 September 2000 09:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Oscar   Click Here to Email Oscar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Marc, thanks for the links they were helpful and good reading.

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Alf Gulford
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Posts: 60
From:Portland, OR
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 18 October 2000 10:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Alf Gulford   Click Here to Email Alf Gulford     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This seems like as good a place as any to ask what might be a very dumb question.

Will we be required to audit 4.1 and 4.2 in ISO 9000:2000?

I'm just now starting to really consider what I'll be faced with when the new standard is released. Not only do these two paragraphs seem like high level overviews of requirements, but everything I read about changes refer to the 'four main sections' of the new standard, referring to numbers 5 through 8. The second sentence of 4.1 even seems to segregate these items from #s 5-8.

I also have heard that parts of #5 are going to be put into #4, which may make that section more significant, but aside from that, and back to my question: Are #s 4.1 and 4.2 intended to be directly auditable?

I always appreciate feedback from this group.

Thanks. Alf

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Oscar
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Posts: 13
From:Brigham City, Utah, USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 18 October 2000 11:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Oscar   Click Here to Email Oscar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alf, my understanding from the training sessison was that 4.1 and 4.2 are very auditable and some of the major differences in the new standard. I would like to hear other comments relative to this issue also.

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Marc Smith
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From:West Chester, OH, USA
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posted 18 October 2000 12:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't have a copy of the FDIS but the differences are cited in https://elsmar.com/ubb/Forum15/HTML/000100.html

If these are correct, the movement of some stuff like document control to section 4 ensures there is no question - section 4 is (will be) auditable.

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