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  ISO 9001/4:2000
  6.2.2 Competence, awareness and training

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Author Topic:   6.2.2 Competence, awareness and training
Greg Mack
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Posts: 37
From:Sydney, NSW, Australia
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 08 February 2001 10:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greg Mack   Click Here to Email Greg Mack     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am interested to learn how some companies are evaluating the effectiveness of training in respect to the new requirement in ISO9000:2000.
We have always monitored the effectiveness of external training, but only on the "effectiveness" of the training course and not on the actual "effectiveness" of the training in regards to the employees and the benefits recieved.
I look forward to the input.

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Dan Larsen
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Posts: 137
From:Sussex, WI
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 09 February 2001 10:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dan Larsen   Click Here to Email Dan Larsen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I tend to suggest to my clients that they consider how existing systems can be used to demonstrate training effectivity before they design all new systems. For example, I use a method whereby reject issues are reviewed to determine the cause (operator, equipment, management oversight, customer). Any issue that is identified as "operator" suggests an issue involving poor instructions or a training issue. By trending the number of "operator" issues, the effectivity of training can be demonstrated. I also suggest that the company include a training review during personnel reviews (it's surprising how many companies overlook this prime place for measuring training effectiveness!) Essentially, the supervisor evaluates how well the employee is trained in evaluating performance. It's also a prime opportunity to determine training needs.

Beyond this, there may be places to use on the job testing, especially with higher level jobs. For example, I've used a final operational test as a measure to make an operator of a heat treat furnace full class. A supervisor witnessed the operator performing loading and unloading of the equipment, then had the operator perform an emergency shut down of the equipment, then had them start it up again. All this was documented on a checklist that went into their training file.

I don't advocate a performance test for everything, but they do have their place in many companies.

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Posts: 10
From:San Jose, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 15 February 2001 03:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bryan   Click Here to Email Bryan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We just completed our External audit and that question came up. We do employee performance evaluations twice a year and asked if that would meet the standard. The auditor told us yes it would. That is how we plan to show evidence of implimenting 6.2.2, performance reviews filed with HR.

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Jon Shaver
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Posts: 38
From:Edgemont, PA, USA

posted 15 February 2001 06:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jon Shaver   Click Here to Email Jon Shaver     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow. I thought quality people had done away with "performance evaluations" ("eliminate merit or rating systems" ..... Deming).

One way to determine training effectiveness (aka understanding) is to do a little quiz at the end. The trainer notes (maybe on the attendance record) the questions asked and any people who didn't pass (presumably nobody).

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Greg Mack
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Posts: 37
From:Sydney, NSW, Australia
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 16 February 2001 03:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greg Mack   Click Here to Email Greg Mack     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Jon,

I think that the point that you have made is fine for evaluating the actual training session or course itself.

However, I am thinking more along the lines of evaluating the effectiveness of the training given in relation to how the employee now performs the task(s) following the training given.

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Forum Contributor

Posts: 18
From:Athens, GA, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 16 February 2001 03:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for donnammurphy   Click Here to Email donnammurphy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We have OJT Training modules for each section/position in the shop. Once the employee completes his module he is evaluated by the supervisor and also a peer to determine the competency of performing the task.

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David Mullins
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Posts: 248
From:Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 18 February 2001 06:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for David Mullins   Click Here to Email David Mullins     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thereās an ROInet group with considerable information associated with the evaluation of training at a variety of levels.

You can subscribe at:


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Greg Mack
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Posts: 37
From:Sydney, NSW, Australia
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 18 February 2001 07:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greg Mack   Click Here to Email Greg Mack     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks David!

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posted 07 March 2001 10:19 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I posted a similar inquiry (General ISO Topics, March 3)and was hoping for a magical solution.

My most frustrating issue is getting the Managers to complete the paperwork as evidence that 1)training occurred and 2)training was effective. I like Marc's idea of evaluating training effectiveness, i.e. competence, during performance evaluations.

Any more magical solutions out there?

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