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  ISO 9001/4:2000
  Normative reference and Terms & conditions

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Author Topic:   Normative reference and Terms & conditions
pikeman
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Posts: 3
From:UK
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 02 March 2001 11:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pikeman   Click Here to Email pikeman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am unclear about the purpose of Normative reference and Terms and definitions. Can someone explain and suggest suitable wording/references for our quality manual.

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energy
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From:New Britain, CT
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 02 March 2001 12:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for energy   Click Here to Email energy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I may be mistaken, but my thought is that you do NOT have to reference 1.,2., or 3. in your QPM. You begin at 4. in the standard.

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Dan Larsen
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From:Sussex, WI
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 02 March 2001 05:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dan Larsen   Click Here to Email Dan Larsen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I fully agree. The first three sections contain no "shalls", therefore don't have to be distinctly addressed. In effect, these are introductory sections to the standard. The meat is in 4 through 8.

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Dan Larsen
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From:Sussex, WI
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 02 March 2001 05:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dan Larsen   Click Here to Email Dan Larsen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
By the way...in answer to the original question (I think): (1)The normative reference essentially says that if another document is referenced in the standard, the most current applies unless the reference is dated; (2)This section does nothing more than define the terms "supplier", "organization", and "customer" as they're used in the standard.

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pikeman
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From:UK
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 03 March 2001 03:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pikeman   Click Here to Email pikeman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The point is that, rightly or wrongly, this information is part of the introduction to our Quality Manual. It is also in the standard and therefore, being keen, we wanted to understand the relevence and meaning.

We asked a consultant and a well known UKAS registered Certification Company and got two different answers. The Certification Company e-mailed us to say that they had got it wrong (they originally said it was connected to other industry legislative standards).

We now believe that normative reference is: ISO 9000:2000, Quality Management Systems - Fundamentals and Vocabulary.

Terms and definitions, as mentioned earlier, supplier - organization - customer.

Understanding the above helps boost confidence. In the past it has been too easy to skip over grey areas pretending that we understand. Our experience with the two parties we talked to about this was an eyeopener and leaves us wondering if there are other areas of the standard that are 'nodded at' in the passing.

[This message has been edited by pikeman (edited 03 March 2001).]

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