The Elsmar Cove Business Standards Discussion Forums More Free Files Forum Discussion Thread Post Attachments Listing Elsmar Cove Discussion Forums Main Page
Welcome to what was The Original Cayman Cove Forums!
This thread is carried over and continued in the Current Elsmar Cove Forums

Search the Elsmar Cove!

Wooden Line
This is a "Frozen" Legacy Forum.
Most links on this page do NOT work.
Discussions since 2001 are HERE

Owl Line
The New Elsmar Cove Forums   The New Elsmar Cove Forums
  ISO 9001/4:2000
  Cl 6.2.2 Competence, awareness & training

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Cl 6.2.2 Competence, awareness & training
Catherine Lim
unregistered
posted 11 June 2001 04:21 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Q : Is it necessary to have a requirement profile defined for engineering personnel or other quality personnel? What should be reflected, and shd it be stated in the QManual? Thank u.

catherinel.msl@simenet.com

IP: Logged

Kevin Mader
Forum Wizard

Posts: 575
From:Seymour, CT USA
Registered: Nov 98

posted 11 June 2001 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin Mader   Click Here to Email Kevin Mader     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Catherine,

I'm not sure I understand your question completely. Could you post additional information?

Regards,

Kevin

IP: Logged

Catherine Lim
unregistered
posted 11 June 2001 08:51 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kevin,

To rephrase the Q - in a recent external audit, we were questioned by the auditors as to how we wld know that the person we are going to employ will be suitable/qualified for the job (not only in qualifications, but in other aspects) or that someone assigned to take over a job will also be suitable. We informed him that this is job of the H.R. and whatever job specifications are kept with them. Auditor replied that this shd not be the case.
So, do we reflect the above in the QManual?

IP: Logged

Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

Posts: 4119
From:West Chester, OH, USA
Registered:

posted 11 June 2001 09:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
-> Is it necessary to have a requirement profile defined for
-> engineering personnel or other quality personnel?

You have to have written job description / requirements.

There are two aspects of this.

First, you have to have qualifications for each job. It might be 4th grade graduate, but you have to have something. When you look in the want ads you will see examples. HR cannot determine what they will be alone. Department managers usually come up with something and give it to HR. So - think of it this way: If you had to hire someone for a position, what would you state as 'minimum' qualifications? High school graduate (will train)? Electrical Engineering degree? EE degree with 10 years experience? Welding certificate? Remember: This can be one specific requirement or many requirements. In addition, it can be an educational requirement, an experience requirement (or other 'type' of requirement) or it may be a combination of two or more factors (such as education and experience).

You might want to call these 'Job Requirements'. Example:

-> In this position, you will be responsible for maximizing
-> lineage and share of market by selling to local
-> automotive dealers and dealer associations while
-> providing excellent service.
->
-> Responsibilities include using professional selling
-> skills during a sales interview to achieve sales
-> objectives; achieving monthly and special section goals;
-> developing quality sales objectives on a regular basis as
-> determined by account needs; developing and maintaining a
-> high level of product knowledge to offer a professional
-> service to customers; using appropriate sales tools such
-> as layouts, tearsheets, ad ideas, and/or market research
-> in planned sales presentations; completing all
-> advertisers requests such as insertions, billing
-> requests, adjustments, tearsheets, contract renewals,
-> kills/corrections, etc.; developing new accounts;
-> participating in training and sales meetings to improve
-> sales skills; processing ads accurately using prescribed
-> procedures; following through with other departments
-> (Credit, Accounting, Art, Research, Production, Ad
-> Service) in advertiser requests or problems.
->
-> Requirements include: 2-3 years' previous sales
-> experience (media experience preferred), college degree
-> preferred, dependable automobile and valid drivers
-> license, ability to attend business related functions
-> that may take place before or after normal business
-> hours.

Who keeps the job descriptions / requirements is not the business of the auditor. I have seen job descriptions kept by departmental managers and I've seen them kept by HR. I've also seen a company whose plant manager kept them. The main point is that they exist, are used, and that they're updated when the job changes.

As far as reflecting the job requirements in the quality manual, if that's what you're asking, I have seen a couple of small companies do that. I don't particularly recommend this but that was how they in part addressed the requirement for defining 'responsibilities and authorities'.

How do you know if a person meets the requirements? Depends upon the company and the job, but the bottom line is one or more people make the decision and, with consideration to the stated requirements, base their decision upon one or more of the following:

Resume
Interview(s)
School transcript or copy of diploma
Drug test(s)
Financial investigation
(Coors and Ford were famous for this in the past. Years ago Ford used to send people to employees houses to make sure they had a 'good family life'.)
Criminal investigation
(Ditto)
Responses from references
Government security clearance review (past or present)
Etc.

But don't take this too far. Many times all you are looking for is a high school graduate - someone you can train. On the other hand, you might want someone with a mechanical engineering degree with 5 years experience in design of gasoline engine fuel delivery systems. Or you might be looking for an electrician with a journeyman's card.

-> We informed him that this is job of the H.R. and whatever
-> job specifications are kept with them.

I cannot think of a reason why this would not be acceptable.

-> Auditor replied that this shd not be the case.

Did you ask how it 'should' be done?

Did the auditor give you a write-up and if so what did it say? If not, I'll cite the old adage: "Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has at least one. Some people have 2 or more (or so it seems)."

IP: Logged

All times are Eastern Standard Time (USA)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply Hop to:

Contact Us | The Elsmar Cove Home Page

Your Input Into These Forums Is Appreciated! Thanks!


Main Site Search
Y'All Come Back Now, Ya Hear?
Powered by FreeBSD!Made With A Mac!Powered by Apache!