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  ISO 9001/4:2000
  New to the process, need advice

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Author Topic:   New to the process, need advice
Lurker (<10 Posts)

Posts: 3
From:Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 18 June 2001 04:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for svtcontour   Click Here to Email svtcontour     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just discovered this site last week and I love it! It is great to learn by reading up on the wealth of experience you all have to offer. I have limited experience in the field so i need some help and i know I have come to the right place.
I work for a Courier company at the main sortation plant and we are going for ISO 9001:2000 registration in mid November. One of the questions that has risen is how do we comply with clause 8.3. During our sortation and processing of inbound customer freight we encounter and at times create errors (sort to wrong conveyor belt etc). We have internal procedures to catch these errors before they become errors that customers see & feel. Because we are dealing with manual sortation, (with the aid of conveyor belts etc) errors will happen.
My question is are the internal errors we generate to be considered "Nonconforming Product"? If a customer makes an error on an address label and we catch it is this a nonconforming product?
I guess my major concern is do we need to keep records of all of and the actions taken to remedy the issues.
As a part of our Quality System we continually perform audits on different aspects of our operation with the goal of tracking down the errors and eliminating them, but we do not track all of the occurrences.

Another thought is do we only consider Nonconforming product to be packages that are due to size, weight, commodity etc beyond our capability to handle? ie certain classes of Dangerous Goods, oversize boxes etc.

Any help on this topic would be greatly appreciated.



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David Mullins
Forum Contributor

Posts: 248
From:Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 18 June 2001 09:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for David Mullins   Click Here to Email David Mullins     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This invokes a whole field of responses from if you've found it, fix it, otherwise it keeps happening;
or there's the school that see this as micro-management which causes a huge number of unsolvable and minor CARs to be generated; and
everywhere in between.

Personally, if you say in your procedures that everyone of these incidents needs to be documented on a CAR and actioned iaw the CA/PA procedure, then you are a brave (perhaps crazy) person. Large numbers of repetitive CARs only denigrate the management system and instil a lack of confidence and overall suspicion, which is the reverse of what you're trying to achieve.
Instead can you draw the line further down the sorting trail, then over time, as sorting systems are improved, this line can be moved further up the process, thus applying quality management, continuous improvement, TQM, etc, philosophies.

I.E. Pick a point in the process with regard to control of nonconforming product that:
1. complies with the standard;
2. isn't ownerous;
3. works for the company; and
4. provides sufficient pressure to improve the process.

One last thought - you can identify and control nonconforming product without generating a mass of records, right?
So how do you do it now?
Does it ensure NC product is identified and controlled?
Is the current process consistent in terms of action taken at particular points of the process?

Where my wandering thoughts are going is that if you flowchart the process, highlight the the steps where NC product is ID'd, and there is a set menu of options to take in actioning the NC product at each of these points, then incorporate this in a procedure, you have recorded the nature and actions associated with NC product!

PS - If you don't use concessions just say this in the procedure.

Sorry about the meandering.


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tim banic
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Posts: 28
From:St George, Ontario, canada
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 19 June 2001 09:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tim banic   Click Here to Email tim banic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not sure if this will help you or not...for the problem with boxes getting placed onto wrong belts etc., you could put together a chart with dates across the top & problems down the side & just record on a daily/weekly/monthly/per shift basis how many you find, then issue one NCR for the problem.

Pick the biggest problem & do C/A on that problem, then review your data to see if that problem was corrected, & then pick the next biggest problem & do another C/A, etc.

If a problem was not corrected, go back brainstorm the problem (involving people who work in the area, they may have some ideas).

Hope this helps you...if you would like to email me please feel free


"If no one laughs at your isn't big enough!"

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Lurker (<10 Posts)

Posts: 3
From:Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 22 June 2001 10:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for svtcontour   Click Here to Email svtcontour     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Much for the help folks!!
Sorry for the delay.

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