posted 05 July 2001 04:00 PM               

This is the best site for you to get the information you need. But, without your Management and workforce embracing the concept, placing unrealistic time frames for YOU to get it done, no amount of informaton will help you. You had eight months and were about to be certified and it "blew up". What happened? Did the company walk away because it was too hard? Did a registrar dash their dreams? It's July and they want to go for it again, without the design element, in November. Sounds like it would be "do-able" if you got close the first time. If you explain "blew up" a with a little more detail, there are people on this site who will be willing to, and can help you.

posted 05 July 2001 04:02 PM               

First off... this forum is the right place to start looking for any information on ISO/QS/TQM/etc. The ftp files are full of good information that help reduce a good bit of the "reinventing the wheel" syndrome.

Now - to the problem at hand...my advise: RUN LIKE H*LL... Sorry, that's kinda tongue-in-cheek, but you are in an untennable situation. If upper management isn't completely behind the ISO registration process and willing to adopt and live by the QMS procedures developed, you are pretty much doomed from the get-go. I was in a very similar situation in my former job and almost gave up the Quality profession because of it. Four months to conduct a gap analysis, develop, implement and audit a QMS (internally), schedule a pre-registration audit, etc., etc., etc. is, to quote you, "very very very unrealistic".

However, I am more than happy to help you any way I can (as I'm sure almost everyone on this forum would be). I have a couple of questions to get an idea of where you stand in this tempest...
1) How familiar are you with ISO-9002:1994?
2) Is ISO-9002 the standard you want to be registered to? (Meaning, do you have design control functions at your facility?)
3) If it is ISO rather than QS that management wishes to pursue, why not ISO-9001:2000?
4) How much of the QS program did you get accomplished before management changed their minds?

We have a pretty good system where I currently work, and I'd be willing to share the format, etc., with you.

Best of luck!!!

posted 05 July 2001 05:03 PM               

It might not be time to bail yet, but the writing is on the wall. Even if the certification goes well, what about the surv. audits. Document all activities in your goal of certification and save all those e-mails requesting others to "participate" in the process. Don't let them make you the scape-goat!

And management wants to go for ISO9000:1994? I bet they still have old TFE manuals yaying around.

Maybe do a good search of this site and print some of the posts and show management that at the very least, they should go for the 2000 version of ISO. You're going to have to upgrade anyways.

Without management buy-in the whole process is a waste of time. I hope they pay you well!

A previously posted, this is a good place to get the information you need and there are many members who will help you with any bumps in the road.

ASD...

posted 05 July 2001 07:12 PM               

There are both factors to consider. The consultant may not be 'knowledgeable' of may have stuck you with an 'idiot' plan.

If you were 'almost' done for QS-9000, then you should have everything you need for ISO 9000.

On the management end - last week I turned down a job because I know the environment would not be good for my mental health and well being.

-> Document all activities in your goal of certification and
-> save all those e-mails requesting others to "participate"
-> in the process. Don't let them make you the scape-goat!

posted 05 July 2001 11:34 PM               

As it is said, I have been there, done that, and have a few scars from being subjected to TQLS (total quality lip service).

By the way, has anyone actually asked this potential customer what they want?

Some suggestions ...

• Define your core (value-adding) and supporting business processes.
  
• Determine how those processes are actually documented and managed.
  
• Compare that to the requirements of the standard, using an objective evidence matrix.
  
• Start filling in the holes. A good place to start is the appointment letter from the CEO to the Management Representative. That should make it clear that the MR has the CEO's ear and speaks with his/her voice.
  
• Try to get the chief financial officer on board - if quality improvements are made they usually save money in the long run.
  
• Even if you are not in a leadership position, try to lead by example.
  
• Keep your resume updated and your scram bag packed.
  

Best wishes,
Graeme

posted 06 July 2001 09:12 AM               

So as you can see the "NUMBERS" are more important than the Quality System. So you see where I am in the pack. And I am one of five managers left.

I have explored the options of leaving and had entertained an offer I recieved earlier this spring. Yet that company right now is very slow and a Quality Engineer may not be needed. So without jeopardizing my current position I stay in place. Also in the mix is the fact that I just bought my first home and in this area of the country there are not many jobs for people in the Quality field so again I am stuck where I am at.

I really want this to work. So maybe because I am a stupid pollak or maybe a little to chivalrous for my own good. I stay where I am at and just keep trying to get this done.

The consultants, the first one is a good friend of the CEO and ofcouse the CEO feels he is a complete help. Well when I ask for anything usually I am made out to feel like an idiot for asking. The other has 25 years of experience. Yet he is always a little too busy to respond to email or even when he is here that he is not looking at the clock and wondering when he could get back on the road.

I will update everyone with where I am at in reguards to each element. I have also contacted NSF-ISR and very much like the person I am dealing with. Has anyone worked with them before.

posted 06 July 2001 11:58 AM               

Ok... it looks like you are there for the long-haul (so to speak), so I would suggest starting to CYA (cover your @ss). As Al and Marc have suggested, DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. If the boss wants it one way and you know it needs to be done another way - if you've argued your point to no avail, you don't have much choice but to do it the boss's way. Get it in writing.

I try to remember Dr. Deming's suggested response to management when they mandate something... Simply ask, "By what method?" In other words, Ok boss-man, I hear you - you want to decrease defects by 20% (increase profits, reduce down-time, enhance productivity, etc, etc, etc.)... how would you like me to go about it? It is management's responsibility to provide you with the plan and the tools necessary to carry that out. If they don't, it's not your failure - it's theirs.

In addition - it sounds as if both consultants can't help you - so don't count on them. Never dealt with NSF-ISR so I can't help on that score.

Another thing you do not want to do is internalize any of this situation. It will eat you alive. You have very little control over your situation - remember that. Leave it at work at night and don't take it home with you. All it will give you is an ulcer and can have seriously negative effects on relationships (experience talking here).

Anyway - I wish you the best of luck. Let me know if I can help.

Cheers!

posted 09 July 2001 02:25 PM               

As the MR assigned YOU must make the plan, sell it to mgmt, and stick with it. Make sure you can justify your approach and remember to multiply your projected time-table by pi for a more accurate deadline.

Stress to all staff that you are the guide to implementing the system, but it takes ALL of you to work on it. The 2000 rev is easier to break down by taking the process approach, you should evaluate whether or not to switch.

A selling point for the switch will be that by registering to 1994 (regardless of when) your cert WILL expire Dec 15, 2003. By that date you will have to transition to the 2000 rev, so where is the added value in implementing 1994 version?

Good luck and if you include an e-mail in the profile, you mightget a little help if folks can send to you.

posted 09 July 2001 04:02 PM               

I was just told that the reason for the lack of completion is my fault. Because as I quote "I put the ball in your court". To which I would have like to have said. "You understood that ISO is not my fortay so why would you not help quide me if you have already done this exercise". Yet I meekly shook my head yes and took my licking.

It was also said that the first consultant that is a friend of the CEO was going to write the QM and all of the upper level proceedures and that all I was too do was write the processes. He had never laid this out before me, so needless to say this very much upset me. First it says that I am not good enough to implement ISO. Second my road could have been much easier.

So where to go from here. I also recieved an email from my current consultant that auditor training will not be scheduled until Aug. I feel this is a little to late.

Any have any information on auditor training. Please help.

posted 09 July 2001 04:47 PM               

Good ol' Hank... he sure knew how to put things... *laff*

If you'd like a PowerPoint presentation for internal auditor training, I have one that is fairly comprehensive (ISO-9000:1994), not the new version yet. While it does not include the forms we use during the actual audit (I go over those in detail in the practical exercises) it does give a good overview of the ISO program and what an internal audit should entail. You are welcome to it.

As for the review... *cringe* Don't know what to suggest there. Kevlar underwear?

Good luck!

posted 09 July 2001 05:23 PM               

I don't know that you ever said why you (the company) switched consultants in the first place.

The fact that you have a consultant and are still 'getting nowhere' is telling. Apparently yours is one of the 'bad' ones.

posted 18 July 2001 12:00 PM               

Read through /Imp/

posted 18 July 2001 07:51 PM               

So now your CEO gets to share the blame and you work for him?

MHO, time for a resume update!

posted 20 July 2001 04:30 AM               

I hope to also review some Quality/ISO9000 case studies. Can anyone point me in the direction of any reviews/case studies.

One last point I hope to make is that of analysing and measuring the quality system - is auditing the only way to show value and push improvement? Are there any quality costing techniques around (p-a-f)?

I would appreciate any help/guidance.