The Elsmar Cove Business Standards Discussion Forums More Free Files Forum Discussion Thread Post Attachments Listing Elsmar Cove Discussion Forums Main Page
Welcome to what was The Original Cayman Cove Forums!
This thread is carried over and continued in the Current Elsmar Cove Forums

Search the Elsmar Cove!

Wooden Line
This is a "Frozen" Legacy Forum.
Most links on this page do NOT work.
Discussions since 2001 are HERE

Owl Line

The New Elsmar Cove Forums   The New Elsmar Cove ForumsThe Elsmar Cove Forums
  ISO 9001/4:2000
  Design verification vs validation

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Design verification vs validation
Andy Bassett
Forum Contributor

Posts: 284
From:Donegal Ireland
Registered: Jun 1999

posted 03 August 2001 04:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Andy Bassett   Click Here to Email Andy Bassett     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I needed to double check this area again so i did a search and came up with an old thread. https://elsmar.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000015.html

I distilled from the thread the following summaries posted by various helpful souls;

Number 1
In my own words, I would say that verification is like "inspect as per drawing" -- comparing the finished part/product to the original specifications (does it have 4 wheels as specified?). Whereas validation is "does it do what the intended use is" (does it roll down the road?).

I could agree with that, but then i no longer understand the difference between a development output (which i thought was the checking of a drawing) and design verification.

Number 2
Verification - has it been built (or provided) per spec
Validation - does it work (or accomplish the intended result)

I think this is saying more or less the same as above, (check the drawing and then physically test the product) so i am left with the same problem of understanding the difference between design output and verification.

Number 3
Design Verification - does the output information match the input requirements (check it).
Design Validation - does the product and/or service perform to the requirements (try it).

And that is the one i will use. ie
I will encourage my customer to go back and compare the product with the original specification (design input) ie Weight limit reached, Torque reached, Target price within 10% etc etc This i hope will satisfy Design Verification.

For Design validation i will present the actual physcial Test Reports relating to the physical testing of the product.

Any comments, what do you think, is this realistic?

BTW Having spent a couple of hours agonising over the meaning of ISO 9000:2000 in this area, i firmly beleive that the Standard deserves every criticism that it gets.

Regards


------------------
Andy B

[This message has been edited by Andy Bassett (edited 03 August 2001).]

IP: Logged

Zanzi
unregistered
posted 03 August 2001 05:29 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Andy, I completely understand your confusion at this greyest of grey areas of the standard. My understanding is as follows:

Verification - Check in put meets output, in my mind the output of design and development reviews

Validation - Check design is capable of doing the job for which it is intended - trials etc

Hope this helps but I to am stuggling through this area as we speak.

IP: Logged

Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

Posts: 4367
From:West Chester, OH, USA
Registered:

posted 03 August 2001 05:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The two words - Design and Development - are to some degree synonymous. Ehat I mean is we're reaching into the world of symantics. Many companies call their design function just that - design. However, we think of a 'Design and Development' process in which Design is a part of the larger system.

-> For Design validation i will present the actual physcial
-> Test Reports relating to the physical testing of the
-> product.

Every company and industry is different. What does an equipment manufacturer do as 'validation' as opposed to an electric motor manufacturer?

For an equipment manufacturer validation is typically performed at the customer's facility. Sometimes it is done at a 'turn-key' company. And yes - some do test their systems prior to shipping, but seldom is reliability an issue in such a 'validation'.

On the other hand, if you're manufacturing electric motors and you make and sell 1M a year, you probably have a number of accellerated life tests you do and other validations.

My point is to look at your design (and Development) process (read system) and determine where the appropriate 'key' points are and how you define each within your system / company.

As per your statement you have done that. I'd want some more info on verification ("...please explain some more..." an auditor may ask). I think you have validation defined OK.

IP: Logged

goose
Forum Contributor

Posts: 31
From:nc
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03 August 2001 08:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for goose   Click Here to Email goose     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ISO 9000:2000 page 15 defines Verification as confirmation thru objective evidence that specified requirements have been met...

Validation...that requirements for a specified intended use or application have been fulfilled.

This is basically how our Registrar explains it.

IP: Logged

Andy Bassett
Forum Contributor

Posts: 284
From:Donegal Ireland
Registered: Jun 1999

posted 03 August 2001 09:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Andy Bassett   Click Here to Email Andy Bassett     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello Marc, just to flesh out my approach to Design Verification, the company i am working with produces right at the start a Design Target Brief which sets out how the final product should look and perform.
I will ask them to go back to this Word Document and write on the right hand side the actual target reached ie
Target weight 1100kg, weight reached 1150 Kg etc.

This would be my way of doing Design Verification in what is basically a company producing complete small-run automobiles.

Thanks for you help Goose with the comments below, unfortunately i cannot translate them in my particular environment

Goose Said;
ISO 9000:2000 page 15 defines Verification as confirmation thru objective evidence that specified requirements have been met...
Validation...that requirements for a specified intended use or application have been fulfilled.

This is basically how our Registrar explains it.


------------------
Andy B

[This message has been edited by Andy Bassett (edited 04 August 2001).]

IP: Logged

All times are Eastern Standard Time (USA)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Marc Smith | The Elsmar Cove Home Page

Please Visit the new Elsmar Cove Forums! All these threads are there and much more!

Main Site Search
Y'All Come Back Now, Ya Hear?
Powered by FreeBSD!Made With A Mac!Powered by Apache!