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  TS 16949
  AIAG release

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Author Topic:   AIAG release
Roger Eastin
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posted 30 July 1999 07:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Roger Eastin   Click Here to Email Roger Eastin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just a note: I tried to purchase TR16949 from AIAG, but I was told that it would not be available until the 4th quarter of this year.

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Richard Sadler
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posted 03 August 1999 02:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Richard Sadler     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I got a copy of ISO/TS16949 from the British Standards Institute. Their website is at http:\\www.bsi.org.uk\. The document is UK£50 for 'subscribers', or UK£100 for non-subscribers.
I saw 2003 as a possible date for implementing it as an International Standard.
If nothing else, it's written more clearly than the QS9000 documents!

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Lassitude
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posted 03 August 1999 08:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lassitude   Click Here to Email Lassitude     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's a REAL ripoff cost wise. 100 pounds is like $200 isn't it?

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Roger Eastin
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posted 03 August 1999 08:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Roger Eastin   Click Here to Email Roger Eastin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, Lassitude, you're right as far as the price goes from BSI. The cost from AIAG is 10 or 15 bucks! My question, though, is even if you get the standard, what can you do with it? There are not auditor qualifications as far as I know, nor items detailed such as audit frequency, customer specific areas,etc. It's funny - I would never have thought to check with BSI because I am so used to the AIAG being the clearing house for QS-style automotive standards (in the US anyway).

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Richard Sadler
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posted 04 August 1999 01:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Richard Sadler     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With respect to what you can do with the standard, the foreword states that "...a common global certification scheme has been developed and must be followed. Customer-specific requirements supplemental to this Technical Specification shall be incuded in audit in order obtain customer recognition of such certification."
Details of the certification procedure can be gained from organisations supporting the IATF.
Guess what?
This points you straight back to the AIAG.

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Mike525
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posted 09 August 1999 10:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike525   Click Here to Email Mike525     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Are any of the big 3 accepting certification to TR16949? I thought I saw something from Ford saying TR16949 was acceptable as a Quality System standard, and they would recognize certification to the standard, but I can't seem to recall or locate the source.

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Roger Eastin
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posted 09 August 1999 11:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Roger Eastin   Click Here to Email Roger Eastin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would be surprised if any of the Big 3 accepted registrations at this time. In fact, I am not sure how any auditor could register anyone at this point, because, as far as I know anyway, there are not auditor requirements published yet, nor are the customer requirements of TR16949 published yet. It seems as if we have heard more from the European part of the world with respect to registration. Anyone else?

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pdboilermaker
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posted 22 August 1999 02:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pdboilermaker   Click Here to Email pdboilermaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just purchased "TS16949" from ASQ. I understand that this is it, the final release that you can be registerd to. Cost was 24.00
Dean Hill

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Roger Eastin
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posted 23 August 1999 11:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Roger Eastin   Click Here to Email Roger Eastin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think that, like the individual who bought TR16949 from BSI, you can purchase this standard from certain sources. However, although you didn't mention it in your reply, I don't think your copy from ASQ did not include any customer-specific requirements nor any auditor-specific (from the Big 3 anyway) requirements. I think that is why AIAG will produce the "official" copy of T16949. This copy WILL include these other requirements (just like QS9K does) and the AIAG version (according to my last conversation with them) will not be available until this fall.

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pdboilermaker
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posted 23 August 1999 06:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pdboilermaker   Click Here to Email pdboilermaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You are correct, it does not contain customer specific requirements, and should not. This standard is sector specific, not customer specific. It is my understanding through talking with people at the ASQ that the problem that the AIAG ran into is that they went to print but with the DTR version. The standard is the standard, no customer specific requirements, you need to get them from the customer or keep your soon to be obsolete QS 9000 third edition around. PS when ISO 9000:2000 hits will this mean a QS 9000 fourth edition must follow? I mean the structure of the 2000 standard has changed dramatically since the 1994 version.

------------------

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mountaineer
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posted 03 September 1999 12:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mountaineer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
TS (yes, it is now a Technical Sepcification) 16949 is indeed the standard. Each country will have an organization resonsible for publishing the 'customer-specific' requirements which will reside outside the TS 16949 document. In this manner, the IATF will be able to control the process in a much more prescriptive manner than has been exhibited by the QS-9000 registration process. The problem was not in the publishing-timeline; in fact there was no problem at all. The exclusion of customer-specific requirements from the TS document was planned from the beginning.

The latest words from B3 on behalf of the IATF was that the QS-9000 3rd Edition would not be replaced by TS 16949----the activities would continue in parallel. DaimlerChrysler (DCA) said a number of months ago that it would be accepting registration for QS-9000, VDA6.1 or TS 16949 as an acceptable quality management system.

TS 16949 is specifically structured for those companies that will be (or already are) providing goods to automotive companies on an international sales basis. Not 'Acme' brakes in Kokomo IN providing Ford Dearborn and 'Acme' brakes in Leverkusen Germany providing Ford Munich, but rather the 'Acme' brakes in Kokomo IN providing both Ford Dearborn and Munich would then likely want to be registered to TS 16949.

Talks are beginning next week (Sep 9 or 10 or 11) in SF to begin the task of revision of TS 16949 into the 9k2k format.

More later.##

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Mike525
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posted 03 September 1999 12:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike525   Click Here to Email Mike525     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's odd - I just placed an order with AIAG last week and was told delivery would be in two weeks - should have by end of next week. I was told the new PPAP wouldn't be available until end of 4th quarter - but that's ok 'cause we don't abide by all of PPAP requirements anyway.

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Roger Eastin
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posted 03 September 1999 01:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Roger Eastin   Click Here to Email Roger Eastin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mountaineer - thanks for all the information. As you hear it, bring it here!
Mike - I'll be curious to see if your TS16949 package contains any customer-specific requirements. I tried to order the "TS-4pak" and was told that it would not be ready until the 4th quarter. I'll try again on Tuesday to order this.

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