posted 24 January 1999 11:40 AM               

Folks - what have you all seen?

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From: "Thompson, Robert"
Subject: Q: Quality Policy /Thompson

We have recently been audited and the consultant asked personnel if they could repeat the company quality policy, a document which is 3/4 of a page long. When people could not recite this I argued that he was testing memory and not understanding of its philosophy. He did not agree. I went onto state that each of our system procedures is directly traceable back to the quality policy and surely by auditing the procedures, analysing the audit results and making any system changes/improvements the real test of understanding of the policy would be gained? Again he did not agree.

Am I being reasonable?

Robert

posted 24 January 1999 11:57 AM               

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From: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Quality Policy /Thompson/Mewborn

The standard requires that the quality policy be "understood, implemented, and maintained". I can't find anywhere that states is must be memorized. Once again we have an example of an auditor making the profession look bad.

It is perfectly acceptable for an auditor to ask "what is your quality policy". An acceptable response would be to show the auditor a written copy or even to read it to them.

Given the above scenario, as an auditor I would then ask your personnel to tell me in their own words what the quality policy means to them (test their UNDERSTANDING not their memorization). If the meaning was clear, even if the words were different, then I would be satisfied.

I would challenge this if I was in your shoes.

Shawn Mewborn, CQA, Provisional Lead Auditor
[email protected]

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From: "McCowen, Melissa (IndSys,ADM)"
Subject: RE: Quality Policy /Thompson/McCowen

Robert,

I've run into this with auditors before, and based on my experience I'm going to take a "middle of the road" response - both you and the auditor have a point.

The standard does require the supplier to ensure that the quality policy is "understood, implemented and maintained at all levels of the organization"(4.1.1). This does NOT require all of your employees to memorize a 3/4 page policy. However, they should be aware of it and able to paraphrase, or give an interpretation as it applies to their particular job. Inferred awareness through knowledge of procedures is NOT sufficient. Otherwise why have the requirement? Any registered company could claim that their employees understand their quality policy because they've been trained to their procedures. Doesn't quite hit the mark.

Now, how we handled this in my facility was to come up with a "short version" of our Quality Policy that is a five-word sentence. This is posted on the bulletin board of every department, and last year we started adding it onto timeclock/ID badges. If an auditor asks if they know their company quality policy they can either point to the bulletin board, or if they have a newer badge, they can point to it on their badge. They can then tell the auditor what it means to them and how they perform their job. This has satisfied every assessment auditor I've had.

My 2 cents, a penny each for you and the auditor.

Melissa McCowen
ISO Coordinator
GE Ind. Systems MDC
[email protected]

posted 24 January 1999 05:45 PM               

quote:

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Given the above scenario, as an auditor I would then ask your personnel to tell me in their own words what the quality policy means to them (test their UNDERSTANDING not their memorization). If the meaning was clear, even if the words were different, then I would be satisfied.

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I have always taken this approach. The policy must be understood. If an employee can show he understands the concept or intent, that should be fine. The idea of Îtheir own wordsâ is probably most acceptable.

posted 13 February 1999 10:33 AM               

Our first auditor asked what the Quality Policy was - if someone could recite it word for word, he pretty much left them alone. (He didn't want someone to read it though - he "wasn't testing their reading ability".) If someone tried to state what it meant, he grilled them for about 5 minutes until he was satisfied that they understood it.

Our second auditor asked what the Quality Policy meant - if someone tried to read it off a posting or recite it word for word, he stated that he didn't want to know if they could read or memorize, he wanted to know if they knew what it meant and how it applied to their job.

posted 13 February 1999 11:34 AM               

quote:

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We have had several auditors (same company), and each auditor handles the QP slightly different.

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Perhaps the training program should be looked into. For example, see:

https://elsmar.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/000012.html

or

https://elsmar.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/000013.html

quote:

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if someone could recite it word for word

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The standard states:

quote:

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The supplier shall ensure that this policy is understood, implemented and maintained at all levels of the organization.

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I believe the key word here is Îunderstoodâ. I do not believe that the employees must be able to recite the policy, nor should they know it word for word. As my assessor put it:

quote:

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...know the intent and be able to point it out if ãneeded.

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quote:

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I now instruct our people to know it both ways - word for word and to be able to paraphrase what it means and how it applies to their job.

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That is fine, but not required. As stated before, the policy must be ãunderstood, implemented and maintained.ä I would not require my employees to memorize it word fro word nor would I require they be able to sign it as a statement of understanding. I suggest this:

When an assessor asks about the policy, the employee should be able to explain its intent and how it applies to their function. If additional details are requested from the assessor, the guide should step in and request why!

Just thoughts.

Regards,
Don

posted 24 February 1999 06:06 AM               

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Subject: Quality Policy
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 04:23:20 PST
From: "Mahesh Kumar Ghai"
To: [email protected]

Here in India, we have another problem, we have many states and ach state has its own language and script. Therefore, what I have done so far is to translate the QP into vernacular. Now every time you translate the translation is not conveying the meaning conveyed by English language QP. I have to ask the employees to try and remember it verbatim, more so at shopfloor level, where literacy rate is practically nil. for this I have had Bible periods before lunch break every day prior to third party audit. I had displayed QP in vernacular all over the place and in BIG FONTS so that a chap could read it without glasses from a distance of 7 to 9 feet. Further I made pocket cards with QP on it. All were told that if questioned about QP, they should look at the board and read it aloud or take out their card and read it out to Auditor. Well, one thing was definite outcome, the auditor never asked a shopfloor operator as to What QP meant to him.

Otherwise this question of what QP means to each person in the company can be very confusing, it is like" LOVE means different things to different people".

Regards

Ghai

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An interesting FYI:

Languages -->

Paupa New Guinea - 817 languages
Indonesia - 712
Nigeria - 470
India - 407
Mexico - 289
Cameroon - 279
Australia - 234
Congo - 221
China - 205

Ethnologe: Languages of the World, 13th Edition (1996)

NOTE: You can now easily figure out:

population/# of languages

for a diversity indicator.

posted 27 February 1999 10:45 AM               

quote:

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The ISO / QS 'quality policy' thing still sticks in my throat as kinda idealistic nonsense.

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Yea, I agree. I believe that was something that falls under the "seemed like a good idea at the time" category. Perhaps if more followed Ford's "Quality is Job 1" type of policy, things would be simpler.

Mine: "Give the customer what they expect when they expect it, on time every time."

Thoughts, anyone?

Regards,
Don

posted 30 March 1999 01:13 PM               

quote:

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·fed with the latest crock of crap and they will quickly come to see that being coached to recite for someone who comes in twice per year, is just that.

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I agree. I believe the best way to ensure the quality policy is ηunderstood, implemented and maintained·â is to make it a part of the organizationâs culture. That takes commitment at all levels, but especially from the top.

Having a policy of ÎQuality is Job 1â or other such rubbish without it being practiced is waste. It serves no purpose to Îpreachâ it without Îpracticingâ it. The policy should be a part of the culture, every hour, every day. How do we do that? It takes work (a lot), time (a lot) and commitment (continuous) from the organization. I have never been an advocate of the Îreciteâ myth, nor do I present it that way to the organization. I tell them up front the requirements and ask THEM how they plan on ensuring it is ηunderstood, implemented and maintained·â. Answers usually vary, but rare is the response that attempts to make it a part of organization culture, sadly.

quote:

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Our task is to present ISO 9000 or documented system as something useful at all levels.

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I agree in part. I prefer to present ISO 9000 as a component, a Îfoundationâ of a more systems based management method rather than a solution. Seeing ISO 9000 as a panacea for organizational ills is very short-sighted indeed.

Regards,
Don

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Check Out dWizard's Lair *** Dead Link Removed ***

posted 21 July 1999 09:58 AM               

Our auditors have always expected employees to "know where to find it" (a.k.a. be able to read it) and additionally, explain what it means to them.

We have never had a problem.

Our motto typically meets the intent of the "Stated QP." It is quite similar to one of the responses above and all people understand that it is what we truly strive to do. A wealth of personnel will answer it the same/similar way...

"Give the customer and each other what they expect each and every time. Additionally, always strive to come up with ideas and suggestions that will enable us to EXCEED their expectations whenever possible." It is not just "regurgitated crap" to prepare for an audit, we try to live it. This is what we want it to mean for everyone and we work on this as a matter of course.

We support this with such initiatives as a "Suggestion Box Program" and the regular use of what we call "Customer Focus Groups" as two examples.

Now, if only we could BE that perfect...

posted 11 December 2000 06:27 PM               

People Striving To Turn Customers Into Fans

ASD...

posted 11 December 2000 06:32 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Al Dyer:

People Striving To Turn Customers Into Fans

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posted 11 December 2000 09:39 PM               

ASD...

posted 14 December 2000 02:25 PM               

1 Do you know if the company has a Q policy
2 Where can I find one
3 What does it mean to you

We printed our Q policy on cards that each person has in his posession and post it on time-clocks - bulletin boards etc. That way the first two are easy...

But on the last 3 audit occcasions the "improvement suggestion" has been made that we simply change our quality policy and make it read what any Q policy would "mean to our employees"

"Provide quality parts to customers on time"

posted 15 January 2001 04:43 PM               

We received an observation during the last audit because about 5 personnel could not paraphrase the policy or objectives. My boss refuses to address this issue because he believes employees should be able to review their cards with this information on them. Our auditor asks employees not to look at their cards. However, I believe the observation was justified because a couple of the employees did not even know we had a quality policy or a card with this information.

I would be interested in any other ideas on educating the masses on quality policy and objectives.

posted 16 January 2001 12:30 PM               

Oh, well. Better to be over-prepared.

posted 16 January 2001 03:28 PM              

But often wonder why auditors practice injecting (on purpose) "conflicting opinions". If you don't have the cards they would say you needed them.. If you do have cards they are uninterested in letting employees use them.

posted 16 January 2001 03:50 PM               

I see two appropriate questions:
1) What is the quality policy (you can read it if you like from your wallet card or one of the posters), and
2) What does the quality policy mean to you?

I was in an audit November 29th and 30th where International Management Systems ( small registrar in the Tampa area) 'president' Steve Pearson (a real charmer) was lead. Steve pressed this on almost everyone he interviewed with questions like "In your opinion does upper management care about the quality policy? Why do you believe that they do or don't? This was a new one on me. All told this quality policy thing is a bit lame.

By the way, I personally recommend against using Steve's company for registration unless you want a mini-inquisition and some real wild interpretations. Steve himself was the odd ball. The fella who Steve contracted with to help as the second auditor was a true gem who knew his business and the standard. But Steve was really off the wall.