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Author Topic:   Virtual and Multi-Site Registration
Marc Smith
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posted 11 July 1999 12:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Subject: Re: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /McCaig/Coga/Kohn
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 12:00:59 -0600
From: ISO Standards Discussion

> >From: Holly McCaig
> >Subject:Q: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /McCaig
> >I am the Management Representative for a training company in the
> >mid-west. Recently our certified department went virtual. We are
> >working out of our homes. The communication has proven to be tough,
> >but we are slowly overcoming it. Does anyone have any advice or tips
> >regarding being ISO certified in a virtual environment? I can give
> >more details of my companies function if needed.

----------------------

> From: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /McCaig/Cogan
> Federal Express obtained ISO 9001 certification without having to
> have all of their local offices audited. The registrar was able to conduct
> virtual audits of the field offices from Fed-Ex headquarters in Memphis.
> Please contact me for additional details.

------------------------

From: Brian Charles Kohn
Subject: RE: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /McCaig/Cogan/Kohn

It is well-established that companies which have multiple branch offices that perform substantially the same tasks can be *sampled* rather than individually visited by the registrar. They're not "virtually audited" per se. What I think you're referring to is the review of internal audit records; such review is required as part of the registration and surveillance process. As far as I know, there is no regulations that allow the registrar to personally visit a fewer number of offices than specified by multi-site schemes.

It is important to note that this method cannot be employed (as such) in the conduct of the internal quality audit program.

Regarding virtual offices made up (substantially) of telecommuters; that is a bit different than field offices, as in the FedEx example. In such cases, the "offices" that the registrar should be looking at are the actual places of business, the legal addresses so-to-speak where employees are "based at" or "report into." Generally, where managers are, managers who manage the work of others, that should be what is considered an "office" for these purposes.

Now, regarding how to audit such situations. Clearly the office(s) is audited as per normal arrangements (and if there are multiple such offices, similar enough to employ a multi-site scheme, then that is appropriate as well). Typically, when I was auditing an office with telecommuters, I'd visit just the office, arranging for small sample of telecommuters to come into the office that day, and a larger sample of telecommuters to be available to be audited by telephone.

All records of the business should, of course, be available at the office-- there shouldn't be any records of the business stored solely at a site not considered part of the business. If there are, then that place (even if it is a person's home) should be considered a legitimate "office of the business" and therefore subject to audit in accordance with the registration scheme.

Internal auditing of such arrangements can be accomplished in the same manner, i.e., a small sample of telecommuters to come into the office, and a larger sample of telecommuters to be available to be audited by telephone, again with all records of the business available at the "office" where the audit actually takes place.

I hope this helps.

-Brian Charles Kohn

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Marc Smith
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posted 11 July 1999 12:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Subject: Re: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /.../Cogan/Kohn/Cogan
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:09:41 -0600
From: ISO Standards Discussion

From: [email protected]
Subject: RE: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /../Cogan/Kohn/Cogan

Brian,

Just as a point of clarification, the Fed-Ex audit approach was an exception to the rule. You are correct in stating that registrars need to follow rules for multi-site sampling. In this unique case, the RAB did approve the unusual approach used by the Registrar. The exception was approved due to the unique design of Fed-Ex's systems. It is unlikely that another organization will duplicate these systems. Therefore, we should not expect to see this unique audit approach used for other organizations.

Indeed it was a virtual audit because hundreds of field offices were audited without the auditor physically being there. My agreement of confidentiality does not allow me to share more with you. Unless you fully understand how the Fed-Ex systems is set up, it is difficult to see that conducting a virtual audit is possible. It remains a controversial certification because of the approach used and the fact that it has not yet been used at another organization.

We are in agreement on the other points you made in your response.

Ken Cogan

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Marc Smith
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posted 11 July 1999 01:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Subject: Re: Q: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /McCaig/Randall
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:14:55 -0600
From: ISO Standards Discussion

From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Q: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /McCaig/Randall

Some of the other respondents seem to be focused on the "multi-site" sampling audit involving the registrar physically visiting only a few (typically 25%) of the registered sites within a given audit cycle. I thought I would address your question from a different angle.

I recommend:

(1) loading your documented quality system into a secured directory on the Internet (this is actually quite easy).

I also recommend standardizing all users to MS IE5. I know that browsers are like religion and Netscape has a huge following, but the truth is that Microsoft Internet Explorer is much better suited for Intranets. (Netscape Navigator is arguably better surfing for the Internet)

Also, set up an IE "Channel" for you online documentation. This will allow automatic updating (distribution) of revised documents to the user's PC for offline viewing (you can't do that with Netscape). The "Channel" feature can also generate automatic e-mails to subscribers (users) whenever a change is made.

You should also be aware that IE will open Word, Excel and PowerPoint files in that native format (you don't need Adobe Acrobat to distribute forms).

(2) using MetaFrame to access (share) data via the Internet. MS Outlook coupled with Exchange and a decent database backend works OK - but can be slow. I still find Outlook to be a bit buggy. If you live in a MS environment you may want to get Outlook 2000 (it is less buggy). Either way, we're talking about heavy involvement from IT.

One of my projects involved implementing a quality system that spans from Hong Kong to Newark to Paris. We used the approach that I described above and it worked great.

Being "virtual" shouldn't be a problem provided that you have a computer literate auditor (these are actually quite rare - so be sure to request / demand a computer literate auditor for your next surveillance audit).

Richard C. Randall

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Marc Smith
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posted 11 July 1999 01:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Subject: Re: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /McCaig/Cogan/Naish
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:28:16 -0600
From: ISO Standards Discussion

From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /McCaig/Cogan/Naish

I would be extremely cautious of using the Federal Express example for doing virtual offices. Their cetificate is a joke. I have called twelve of their regional offices to find they have no procedures. They do not know what their quality policy is and they do not do customer requested corrective action because they do not know what it is. In addition a call to the corporate office in Memphis resulted in pretty much the same results except when the customer service person who answered was asked about ISO they said that I would have to talk to their sales person if I wanted to get their on line tracking software. When asked a second time the person said they didn't know what I was talking about. When finally directed to the head of the corporate customer service department the lady indicated she knew they were certified and would get a hold of the person who had implemented it to have him call me and send a copy of their certificate. That never occurred.

I sent a request to their registrar for verification that all offices really had been audited and was sent a nice letter indicating they did all of the offices from Memphis and they included a copy of the page out of Federal Expresses book showing they had been registered.

I have asked for corrective action no less than 5 times from Federal Express and still can not get one from anyone in the company. In addition they fail contract review but not notifying the customer when they fail to make a delivery as scheduled.

I continue to be amazed by the fact they continue to pass their audits but then again if the auditors never get out of Memphis I guess they see only what Federal Express wants them to see.

Not just a great example unless all you want is a piece of paper on the wall and then they are the perfect example.

Phyllis

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Marc Smith
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posted 11 July 1999 01:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Subject: Re: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /../Cogan/Naish/Cogan
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:59:54 -0600
From: ISO Standards Discussion

From: [email protected]
Subject: RE: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /../Cogan/Naish/Cogan

You make some good points Phyllis which underscore some weaknesses of ISO 9001:

- It is a basic quality system, not a world-class one.
- Most ISO 9001 certified companies do make mistakes and receive customer mistakes.
- Corrective action is taken depending on the importance and magnitude of the issue, meaning not every problem will have a formal corrective action, as you have experienced.
- Section 4.3 of ISO 9001:1994 does not require companies to notify customers if they have late deliveries. It requires that they have a process for amending contracts. It seems Fed-Ex's process does not include providing the notification you desire. (Does it say they will notify you on the waybill - your contract with them?)

You are also correct in stating that their certificate is only for their headquarters in Memphis. It does not list all their field offices since they are not visited as part of their certification. The best thing you can do is to use your two feet and take your business someplace else. They are not meeting your needs.

Ken

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Marc Smith
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posted 11 July 1999 01:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Subject: Re: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /../Naish/Dey/Biddle
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:01:27 -0600
From: SO Standards Discussion

From: [email protected] (R.M.Biddle)
Subject: Re: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /../Naish/Dey/Biddle

This concerns the difficulties one subscriber reported having with FedEx.

On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Pat Dey wrote, in part:

>I do not see that one aggrieved customer calling 12 offices is a sufficiently
>large and unbiased sample.

One customer almost never has statistical significance, but that wasn't an issue. The gravamen here was whether an individual customer has the right, under FedEx's procedures, to lodge a request for corrective action. If so, the next question is why such repeated requests weren't attended to.

>I do not think it is appropriate for this discussion list to question the
>validity of a specific company's ISO 9000 certificate without firm evidence
>and without involving that company and its registrar in the discussion - this
>is after all a world-wide discussion list. If a certificate
>should be questioned, then there are appropriate formal channels for that.

Please let's not be too hasty in censoring discussion. This particular topic -- how we might tally the real to the ideal -- is close to my heart.

I started reading this list a couple of years ago in order to understand why I agreed to work for two dysfunctional companies merely on the strength of their registrations under ISO 9002. I have not been terribly successful. (The best I have come up with so far is the notion that ISO 9000 is the god of business, St Edwards is its prophet, and the rest of us fall short of glory.) So I, for one, appreciate any attempts we make at analyzing the effects of failing to live up to one's own standards.

It would be illuminating to develop additional evidence and to involve comment from FedEx and their registrar, but to require such things as the price of initiating discussion on this informal, if worldwide, mailing list would arrogate to the list a juridical proceeding incompatible to its purpose. Such requirements would also discourage generally all but the driest of theoretical postings.

The questions of greatest moment, at least to me, are "How can the theory best be put into practice?" and "What can we learn from the failures?". Under those terms the question raised about FedEx is exactly on point.

"Civilised people can talk about anything. For them no subject is taboo. ... In civilised societies there will be no intellectual bogeys at the sight of which great grown-up babies are expected to hide their eyes." (Clive Bell, 1928)

Best wishes,

Robert Biddle
[email protected]

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Marc Smith
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posted 11 July 1999 01:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Subject: Re: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /../Naish/Cogan/Andrews
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:09:09 -0600
From: ISO Standards Discussion

From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /../Naish/Cogan/Andrews

Ken wrote (in part);
"- Section 4.3 of ISO 9001:1994 does not require companies to notify customers if they have late deliveries. It requires that they have a process for amending contracts. It seems Fed-Ex's process does not include providing the notification you desire. (Does it say they will notify you on the waybill - your contract with them?)"

Ken,
Missing a contracted delivery date IS an amendment to contract (albeit, a unilateral one the way Fed Ex is doing it) Without notifying - and reaching agreement with the customer - they are in fact in nonconformance with Section 4.3 of ISO 9001.

Ethan Andrews
[email protected]

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Marc Smith
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posted 11 July 1999 01:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Subject: Re: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /Naish Again
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:39:48 -0600
From: ISO Standards Discussion

From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /Naish Again

I think some of you misread or misunderstood the point of my earlier message. In it I indicated the following to answer some of the questions put forth:

First, The company at the corporate level in Memphis TN, as high as we could get to by phone, and they refused to provide a corrective action. So the number of worldwide location is irrelevant since we are talking the facility which was audited in person.

Second, their registrar was also asked to address the issue thinking perhaps FEDEX had misled them. I indicated their response was to read the page they sent from the FEDEX manual and that they in fact had registered.

Neither of those two was the original point which was the fact they failed to meet several sections of the standard which are:

1) Section 4.1 which clearly states that the quality policy must be documented and understood at all levels of the company that affect quality. If more than a dozen people in as many locations do not know or understand it, (and none did including supervisors and managers), then how can they pass this requirement? Albeit a small sample - how many would you like to sample before you find someone who knows it? Especially when this included the corporate customer service group in Memphis? When 100% of the sample doesn't know it seems evident that it does not meet it. This includes offices from across the USA in major cities such as Miami, Chicago, New York, Dallas, and Fremont (part of San Fransisco) California.

2) Under contract review if you review the weigh bill it indicates they will deliver as per what you mark except that it may be later in some areas. While later in some areas is obvious it does not mean that it will be lost and not delivered and no notice given to us. This falls under both contract review for changes to agreement and 4.7 control of customer supplied product. So they actually have failures under 2 additional sections.

3) Now the point was made that ONE agrieved customer is not a good example. Which is interesting since I have had no less than FIVE of my clients who are much BIGGER customers than we are ask for corrective action as well. They were told the same thing we were: FEDEX does not do corrective actions. (BTW they also asked about the quality policy and got told the same thing.) -Therefore I have to again question how they pass either section of the standard when they indicate they don't do corrective actions and don't know the quality policy. Obviously they have no mechanism for recording corrective action requests. So when the auditor goes in there are none to look at and they pass. Or they select a few and show them. I can not explain it any other way.

4) If none of the employees asked knew anything about any training on procedures or what procedures were, how is training demonstrated. I have been in that postion before in an audit so we phrased the question regarding procedures and records every way we could to obtain correct information and still found it lacking. So the section on training is also questionable.

As for getting FEDEX involved I would love to have them or their registrar answer the questions that were posed either on line or off line. It is unfortunate that they do not seem to want to do that either on or off line.

A number of my clients have questioned us on why they have to do corrective actions if companies like FEDEX don't. There are others out there that have been registered who also will not respond to corrective actions. So FEDEX is not the only one.

One point that was interesting is that FEDEX is the only company that has been allowed to be audited as a "VIRTUAL OFFICE" while others are being told they have to have all their offices audited over a period of time being anywhere from 3 to 5. Why are they being treated different? This again says that the standard is not being applied equally to all companies.

I sense some defensiveness on the part of the registrar or people who were involved with this particular registration. If the company truly lives up to the letter as well as the intent of the standard then no one should have to be defensive. If in fact the 12 offices I talked to and the corporate people were ill informed it is simply a matter of better training and should have been or should be taken care of easily.

If on the other hand there is a real problem then maybe we do have a weakness in the system which many of us in the real world know exist. I for one have seen companies who have major non conformances in more than 5 sections of the standard pass an audit. Some did it intentionally and fooled the registrar and in other cases the registrar has looked the other way. That is the reality of the real world.

> From here I would rather focus on a better example of how a good "virtual office" should look and not on how FEDEX did it. Maybe we can help the person who asked by giving ways to make different sections comply.

My first suggestion is that all employees are brought into a training session to discuss the ISO process and what ISO implementation will mean to them. This includes an overview of the standard and I suggest that if you are doing it right going through each section of the standard and let the employees know what that section will mean to them. Ask each employee or group to develop their own plan for helping with the implementation in their department. Record the training and record the plans. This will get you off to a start.

Have each group also develop their goals for the year and review them against company goals. This gets you to the next step: implementation.

Document control can be done as suggested via intranet link or by using a read only CD controlled at the main office.

I am sure others have some additional suggestions for the remainder of the implementation.

Phyllis

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Marc Smith
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posted 11 July 1999 01:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Subject: Re: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /.../Cogan
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:50:46 -0600
From: ISO Standards Discussion

From: [email protected]
Subject: RE: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /../Cogan

Just as a point of clarification, the Fed-Ex ISO 9001 certificate only lists their headquarters location, it does not list all the field office locations since no on-site auditing was done at the field sites. Although many field sites are virtually audited, they should not be considered as part of the official certification. Therefore you should not expect field office personnel or couriers to understand the quality policy or even have a clue about ISO 9001. Fed-Ex headquarters does have a corrective action system which includes customer complaints. What is impossible for a third-party auditor to know when reviewing corrective actions and customer complaints is whether all have been included in the records or there are some which have been ignored and are not entered into the system.

Ken

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Marc Smith
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posted 11 July 1999 02:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Subject: Re: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /.../Cogan/Naish
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 15:16:31 -0600
From: ISO Standards Discussion

From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /.../Cogan/Naish

Ken,

Not to belabor the FEDEX point but if you look at the book FEDEX gives its customers on page 7 it does not say corporate only. To be exact it says: "...Leadership in our systems, which recently earned us ISO 9001 certification of our operations worldwide (first in our industry so honored!).." That is pretty clear they are saying worldwide so either it is false advertising which their registrar should take exception to or they are certified worldwide. The other registrars that I know would not accept this statement if only Memphis was audited as it is clearly misleading the public.

This is another example of buyer beware. I have noticed numerous ads in magazines which imply the whole company (not FEDEX but other companies) is ISO 9000. Be sure you knwo what the scope of the certificate says and what facilities it refers to if you are making purchasing decisions from this type of information. Get a copy of the actual certificate and verify that the location you deal with is in fact certified or find another way of qualifying the supplier.

Phyllis

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Marc Smith
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posted 11 July 1999 02:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Subject: Re: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /../Andrews/Dey/Kozenko
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 15:58:23 -0600
From: ISO Standards Discussion

From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /../Andrews/Dey/Kozenko

> By failing to meet a contract [requirement], for example by delivering
>late, one is not amending the contract. One is failing to meet it.
>
Pat:

I agree completely, and to put it in the "lingo" of contract professionals, failing to meet a delivery date is in fact a default of contract, for which there are two different types of remedies (for the purpose of our discussion List): (1) legal remedies and (2) quality system remedies.

This is all I have to say about "legal" remedies:

The last time I read any of the fine print on any of the providers of express (that is, "one day") delivery service providers' packages and bills of lading, I found exculpatory language to the effect that the service provider would only apply "best efforts" to the intended "overnight" delivery...

The remainder of this post is about quality system remedies...

At first, the exculpatory language of the contracts people made me angry. I wanted to believe that my company's twenty bucks could somehow GUARANTEE overnight delivery. Then I gave some thought to my company's own personnel, and the fact that, converted into light bulbs, some of them couldn't illuminate the crawl space underneath my basement stairs (relative position in the management organization notwithstanding...).

What we're actually dealing with here is the "degree of risk" that ISO (9001:1994) talks about in Clause 4.14, Corrective and Preventive Action, which in part I quote:

"Any corrective or preventive action taken to eliminate the causes of actual or potential nonconformities shall be to a degree appropriate to the magnitude of the problems and commensurate to the risks encountered."

Now I'm going to risk offending a lot of list readers, and put that statement of the Standard into a business perspective meaningful to Fed X (and I don't even work for Fed X, but it's a great opportunity to applaud the Standard as written...)

If I were the CEO of Fed X, I wouldn't care if YOUR package didn't get delivered on time, truly...

I would care if perhaps, a THOUSAND packages sent from your "sending location" did not get delivered on time. And why is that?

My reasoning would be this: It's totally absurd to believe that every package taken to any Fed-X counter in any location everywhere every day is going to reach its intended destination on time (that is, tomorrow...) and anyone who believes this of any express carrier is not living in the real world... My experience as a contracts manager taught me that cover letters for Bids and Responses to RFP's and RFQ's for public agencies (with totally strict bid-date received-by deadlines) should contain the text, "This Proposal may have been received in duplicate original(s)..." and that several (two, and perhaps more than two...) providers of express delivery services should be used (even for USPS bids, and don't think that part of quality is funny...).

You learn to think this way the first time one of those so-called "express" delivery service providers fails to meet your intended contractual requirements, and your bid for (say) $20 million in professional services is not even considered because it arrived a day late (and, of course, everyone knows the business development VP is going to hand you one "original" of the bid at 8:30 pm the day before it's due, knowing full well that the express shipment stations for any express services all close at 9 pm at the airport, which is 20 minutes away...); and when you find out your bid is not even being considered, you not only have to explain it to the President, VP Operations and the VP Business Development, you also have to try to continue to work with the people who's lives were in that Proposal... who won't be going to that "next job" that you could have won, but for the failings of the express delivery service provider... It's called "quality planning" where redundant delivery of duplicate originals makes all the sense in the world... (hands clapping for subClause 4.2.3).

But it's confusing to the express delivery service provider, who only cares if (pick a number here...) 99.4 or 99.5 per cent of the contracted "express" deliveries arrived on time. Because to the express delivery service provider, the number you picked is "ok" and it's certainly commensurate with the "risk" which is:

(Thinking now as the CEO of Fed-X again...) "...in order to improve performance from 99.4 percent to 99.5 percent on-time overnight delivery, it will cost the company 8 billion shareholder dollars, since (for example) clerks would (then) need to be 4 year degree holders, as opposed to (now) high school graduates... certainly not "commensurate with the risks" since, if the company DOES NOT spend that kind of money on a miniscule performance metric improvement, the company will still be in business tomorrow and so on ..."

Now let's see that Standard requirement one more time:

"...shall be to a degree appropriate to the magnitude of the problems and commensurate to the risks encountered..."

to which I can only add, [applause...] and [Thanks, Pat...].

David Kozenko

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posted 11 July 1999 02:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Subject: Re: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /..//Kozenko/Andrews/Kozenko
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:02:29 -0600
From: ISO Standards Discussion

From: [email protected]
Subject:RE: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /..//Kozenko/Andrews/Kozenko

> I think that, indeed, we are required to track customer complaints - in
> order to be able to utilize the information in the corrective/preventive
> action process(es).

Ethan:

In the old timey Westerns, there are "blinders" on the horses' eyes, and I never wondered what those blinders were for until my daughter started up the Equine ladder (now toward the US Olympic Team I might add... beaming not too much...).

When you "handle effectively" you might (for example) be swatting a tennis racquet at thousands of "bounced at you" golf balls. It may develop on bad days into a formidable task, but it can be done.

One step further, when you have to "track" all those golf balls after you've hit them (or in simpler terms, if you have to track all those complaints after you've addressed them, the term "addressed" not intended to connotate that which a golfer does...) then you've introduced a new three-dimensional layer of self-imposed responsibility that may or may not be useful.

A mere "Yes I hit them all back" may be completely sufficient, in lieu of a GPS logistics report about where they all stopped after you hit them.

The Standard requires "handle effectively" which you can decide for yourself is more like the former (which, one racket or two, is not tracking), or the latter (which is tracking), or anywhere in between (that is, don't track the golf balls but track the tennis balls...).

David Kozenko

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Marc Smith
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posted 11 July 1999 03:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Subject: Re: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /../Ostrander
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:47:42 -0600
From: ISO Standards Discussion

From: [email protected] (Shirley Ostrander)
Subject: Re: ISO 9001 Certified Virtual Office /Ostrander

FedEx is, in fact, certified WORLDWIDE. According to an ISO9000 training class I went to recently, our ability to be certified worldwide was due in large part to our computer systems that allow us to not only 'see' a package as it travels through our network, but it allows us to provide information and procedural changes in near real-time. In addition, we have a satellite broadcasting network that reports daily on how we did every night, if there were any plane delays and why. An auditor who comes to Memphis can see (and audit) any FedEx location worldwide. While auditors do spot checks around the world, our operation is certified as a whole, not station by station.

Understand that I'm not an ISO9000 expert for FedEx and I've not worked directly with any of the auditors that have come to Memphis. While I cannot provide specific details of the above information (because I don't have them), if there is interest I will try to find someone and a phone number that would be in a position to answer questions.

Shirley Ostrander
Personnel Information Systems Analyst

(OH, and yes we were the first service company to be certified worldwide...we were certified through Lloyds)

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Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

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posted 02 December 1999 03:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also see https://elsmar.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000124.html

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Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

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From:West Chester, OH, USA
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posted 02 December 1999 03:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
After reading through this entire thread again for the first time in a while, I now can confidently say that I have figured it out. Not only can a big company BUY a registrar, but obviously the RAB is up for sale as well. Ken Cogan states:
quote:
In this unique case, the RAB did approve the unusual approach used by the Registrar.
Duh. If you're big enough you can buy what you want. Even an ISO registration. I go along with Phyllis where she says:
quote:
I would be extremely cautious of using the Federal Express example for doing virtual offices. Their cetificate is a joke.
Yes - I agree. FedEx's certificate IS a JOKE. It was bought and paid for one way or another. Ken Cogan says FedEx is a 'special' case because if its systems. I say it was and is a special case as they have a certificate without having to comply as most companies do. One could say their registration makes a mockery of ISO registration.

But I'm not surprised. I have seen a lot of big companies get away with 'unnoticed' majors which stood out like a sore thumb during audits. Not just in ISO, but in QS as well.

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