posted 14 June 2000 11:11 PM               

The program integrates into Word, Excel, Powerpoint, but you can use it to create pdf files from any program by printing to the acrobat 'printer' the program creates.

posted 15 June 2000 11:55 AM               

What would the specialised package do that I canāt with just access to a server?

This is as far as my experience and imagination stretches on the subject. Maybe, thereās more to it. Iād like to hear just what a system should have or what facilities are available that could make a better system than what I have described. I just donāt have an idea. In fact, my only ideas are; 1) that the more a system is capable of delivering, the more difficult and time consuming it is to use. 2) people tend to make easy things complicated.

What about the DMS on the web? Have you seen it? Has anyone else? What is practicable? Is the answer your PDF adobe system? Does the fact that the information is on a simple, standard package make a difference when it uploads? How do the costs balance out; having and maintaining your own server versus buying time on line?

I could find out by trying it out but I have a limited parcel of webspace available so it might be a waste of time. Also, it pays to get input first, from people who have done some work in the area.

posted 15 June 2000 11:26 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by John C:
I hadnāt seen this discussion before today so I went back over it and came across a case where some guy had told how he was using an everyday word processor and graphic package and it seemed ok for him. You were about to expand on the subject when Marc jumped on him and mauled the poor guy to death so weāll never really know what the guy was trying to say to us and you didnāt pursue the subject.

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By the way - I'm always around....

In the mean time, I will state my position. Documentation should be as simple as the business allows. If you have 10 people and Excel and Word (or a cheap word processor and a cheap spreadsheet) that's all you need. If you want to do flow charts and don't have powerpoint, there are several cheap flow charting programs available including SmartDraw ( http://www.smartdraw.com/ ) if you're a windows person. If you're a large company, all you need is Word and Excel and a savvy IS person to set priorities in directories. You do not need acrobat unless you:

1. Want to get fancy
or
2. You don't want to pay for everyone in the company to have a copy of MS Office.

I do not believe in canned software. If you need a database, Filemaker or Access are fine.

If you have a developed intranet and web, you might want to put your files on it - but that's typically more expense. The tradeoff is it's easier for most people to use a web interface - I don't find navigating and remembering directories difficult but many people say that's too technical.

Even if your company has 40,000 employees around the world - as long as you have a connective intranet you can have the documents as READ ONLY in a protected directory on 1 server.

I in no way promote expensive and/or specialized software solutions. I take each client and evaluate:

What programs do they have?
How many employees?
Locations?
All connected by intranet?
Training and ease of use client is seeking?
Money to spend?
Programmers in-house and/or experience outsourcing (such as Oracle in large companies which want to leverage info from that)?
Degree of ERP/database integration required (large companies).
Any existing systems to be integrated?

Some companies want Powerway - Harley did. I recommended against it. Some companies write a control database in access. I push a simple spreadsheet for smaller companies - example in the pdf_files directory is doc_matrix.pdf if I remember correctly. A spread sheet is definitely not expensive or specialized.

John, how you want to control documents is a function of how fancy you want to get. As much as I disdain Microsoft, if you have Word, Excel, Access and Powerpoint - there's not a thing else you need.

On the other hand, let's go beyond document control. Let's go beyond ISO to QS.

If you want to expand the situation to include / address MT&E control, control plan / FMEA / Nonconformance-Corrective Action systems software - well, you can do most of this in-house or outsource it but canned software is typically the cheapest way to go. But again, this is all very company specific. On page 2 of this thread I believe Kate Kliebhan gave a glowing recommendation for MQ1. I like the customization features she describes, thought I have never used it. A big drawback to 99% of canned software is that it is just that - canned. You can't tailor it to your company.

Now - if you consider this reply as jumping on you and mauling you - that's life. I addressed the question at hand. The only person I know I seriously pissed off here (mauled) was the fellow who, in another thread, asked about consultants without even considering me. Maybe I should have kept my mouth shut, but I said what I did and stand behind it. If you're considering hiring a consultant and don't want to consider me then discuss it in a NG or person to person - not on my forums. Yes - I took it as an insult and I raised hell. Just because this site is free doesn't give license to insult me. On the other hand, I do not mind consultants responding to such inqueries. A number of people here are consultants - if you (they) smell food, go for it. I do.

posted 17 June 2000 03:29 AM               

I got fired up here because I couldn't remember mauling someone for suggesting simple systems except where QS-9000 and APQP documentation is concerned. If you have to deal with APQP documents such as DFMEA, PFMEA, control plan, process flow diagram, I suggest integrated software - I disdain Excel for FMEAs and Control Plans as it's time consuming and can get confusing. Gaging software makes sense for larger companies, as well, in my opinion. But typically I try to recommend cheap, simple solutions.

posted 21 June 2000 07:17 AM               

My concern over complex software is maintenance. While maintenance may not seem like an issue, the more complex (such as active links) your system the more specialized the 'administrators' must be. Updating active links can end up being a time consuming and 'technical' nightmare. I do agree with your analysis.

As far as stickers go, no - I don't care if a company finds them 'necessary'. Yes - I do disagree with auditors who argue for them where none are necessary whether calibratoion or other such as the notorious FOR REFERENCE ONLY stickers some companies put on every document which is not controlled.Per your mention of Filemaker - I personally like it more than Access - but most people have Access. I have had Filemaker for years and all my 'stuff' is in Filemaker - address book, etc.

My intent is to ensure my clients are not pushed into making business decisions based upon an auditors paradigm and interpretation of a requirement.

posted 24 June 2000 04:36 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by John C:
Marc,
I'm not familiar with a lot of the packages you mention but I take your answer as being; "If simple, common software works for you, then use it."

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