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  APQP and PPAP
  PPAP Process Requirements

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Author Topic:   PPAP Process Requirements
Sarang
unregistered
posted 25 February 2000 09:16 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We have just started working towards getting QS in the company. We have never done any PPAP before and our knowledge base in that area is very limited. I plan to start off with PPAP in a couple of weeks. I went through the manual and it seemed too ambiguous to me. The very first requirement:

"I.2.1 Significant Production Run:
Product shall be taken from a specific production run. Production run shall be from one hour to eight hours of production, and with specific production quantity to total a minimum of 300 consecutive parts. "

is eating my guts out for the last few days. Could someone explain this requirements to me in plain and simple english? PLEASE!!!

Thanks in advance.

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Sam
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Posts: 244
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Registered: Sep 1999

posted 25 February 2000 11:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sam   Click Here to Email Sam     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My understanding;
When all required customer approvals have been received,i.e.,Engr. Samples, Prototypes,Pre-launch and production is scheduled, then production runs 300 consecutive parts. From these 300 parts the required data for the PPAP is generated.
Depending the type of product you are producing you may get some relief from your customer on the quantity of parts to run.
At a previous company we called this run a "Pilot Lot" which we would place on hold until the PSW was approved.

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Sarang
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posted 25 February 2000 11:27 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Sam,
We make custom truck bodies and trailers. Most of our customers have altogether different specifications. Some of our customers do order in bulk, say 50 bodies or so. Where do I get 300 production parts from?? What kind of relief do I ask my customers for? Is there any specific way to get something relieved?
Help me before I bang my head into a wall!!

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Marc Smith
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From:West Chester, OH, USA
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posted 25 February 2000 11:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd really like to hear from someone who has gone through this myself.

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Laura M
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Posts: 299
From:Rochester, NY US
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 25 February 2000 01:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Laura M   Click Here to Email Laura M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We had a product with less than a 300 piece order. The customer waived the 300 piece requirement. The 1 to 8 hour run is because some processes can produce 300 pieces in 5 minutes...you may manufacture several months worth if you run 8 hours. On the other hand, if you run at a rate of 300 pieces a day, the "significant production run" must represent a full days production. Partly to ensure "typical" variation is accounted for in your sample. Not looking for "special cause" variation at this point, but that your process is "capable" of producing parts to specification. Correct establishment of controls in the control plan make sure the process stays there....or, more at, that any shifts are detected, set-up is correct, etc.

As far as the specifics of collecting 300 parts, if your processes are similar, and you can group them into "families" then you probably do not need 300 of each kind, just 300 process samples. Depending on how "custom" the truck bodies and trailers are...it sounds like families is the way to go. You can probably PPAP your process using 300 pieces...mixed models. You may need to do specific Layouts for the different models. Do your customers require PPAP? Hopefully they at least know about it, so you can ask for the waiver and they know what you are talking about!

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Sam
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posted 25 February 2000 01:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sam   Click Here to Email Sam     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Our present PPAP sample/production run consists of four (4) pieces max. We keep one as the sample and send three (3) to the customer with level II PPAP(modified). We have a letter on file from the customer approving this quanity.


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Sarang
unregistered
posted 25 February 2000 01:30 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Laura, Sam and Marc,
I get some idea about what I should be doing. Now to clarify some stuff for you guys so that you can pass on any more ideas you have:

Laura "Do your customers require PPAP? Hopefully they at least know about it, so you can ask for the waiver and they know what you are talking about!"

None of our customers require PPAP at this time. Infact no one has ever asked us about it and I am sure not many of them have the slightest idea about the topic. But we are going for QS9K because we plan to supply the B3 in the near future.

Marc: "I'd really like to hear from someone who has gone through this myself"

What exactly did you mean Marc? I am sorry I am all messed up today, so I might not really be able to grasp things quickly.

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Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

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From:West Chester, OH, USA
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posted 25 February 2000 10:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sarang:

Marc: "I'd really like to hear from someone who has gone through this myself"

What exactly did you mean Marc? I am sorry I am all messed up today, so I might not really be able to grasp things quickly.


I have not experienced a situation (or had a client who) only made 4 or 5 pieces - or even 50 - a year and had to do PPAP. I am saying I would like those who have to tell us their experience(s).

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Sarang
unregistered
posted 28 February 2000 08:58 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Marc,
I was confused on whether PPAP required first 300 pieces from a production run of 8 hours and that too on the same day. Thats the reason I initially questioned the ambiguity of the requirement. You misunderstood me when you said "I have not experienced a situation (or had a client who) only made 4 or 5 pieces - or even 50 - a year and had to do PPAP". I meant to say we do not do 300 pieces every day or in a run of 1 to 8 hours.
Anyway, I think I've got a few good answers from you guys and I can base my PPAP on these answers now. Thanks again.
Sarang

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Csaba
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Registered: Feb 2000

posted 28 February 2000 10:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Csaba   Click Here to Email Csaba     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd like see a sample PPAP folder...

------------------

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Sarang
unregistered
posted 28 February 2000 04:44 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Csaba,
You'll find the format in the pdf files section at /pdf_files
Hope this helps.

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billsfan
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Posts: 19
From:Kane, Pa., USA
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 23 March 2000 09:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for billsfan   Click Here to Email billsfan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi guys,
I know this is an old post but, just my two cents worth here.....
Remember,when the "Big 3" got together to write the PPAP book, they had to take into account suppliers that make everything from nuts, bolts & washers - to - engine blocks, axels and transmissions! Just think about the diversity of the products and processes. I strongly suggest that you establish a repore with your customers and come to an informed agreement about such issues. After all, do we all do PPAP's because we want to or because we HAVE TO. If this is a customer requirement, why not let them tell you (with your input) what they want to see.
Sorry if I rambled....something struck a cord!

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