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  APQP and PPAP
  Process Specific vs Part Specific, FMEA&C P

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Author Topic:   Process Specific vs Part Specific, FMEA&C P
annd928
unregistered
posted 19 March 2001 10:11 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have just received my QS 9000 certificate, as of 2/24/2000. Yet, Delphi pops in on friday to walk the shop with the control plans from 4 of there PPAP'ed parts. No problem. I am a heat treater, and we have created our fmea's and control plans to be process specific since we make no parts here. Our Auditors like the set up and thought it was value added for us to set it up this way. Delphi's Rep is not happy. He says that it states in the QS books that it must be part specific. I understand that they can request this "Section II", but he is saying he shouldn't have to, it is in the book. I am searching, He could not tell me which book. Any ideas for finding this statement, or for batteling this statement would be appreciated. We have over 500 Customers only 4 which require PPAP's if I have to create a Control Plan for every part we ever do... well we just could not do it. This way our operators can use them daily.

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Al Dyer
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Posts: 622
From:Lapeer, MI USA
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 19 March 2001 04:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Al Dyer   Click Here to Email Al Dyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You wrote:

"Yet, Delphi pops in on friday to walk the shop with the control plans from 4 of there PPAP'ed parts."

Did you bring up the point that the PPAP warrant had been approved, and therefore the contol plan had been accepted?

It would be hard to gig you when you hold an approved warrant.

Were there four distinct (part specific) control plans?

It sounds as though you have utilized a control plan for a family of like parts which is acceptable. I believe that as long as the part numbers appear on the "family" control plan there should be no problem.

Is Delphi asking you to change your system?

I think you need to determine which section of the manual they think you are not following.

If they couldn't give you the section of the maunual they believe you are noncompliant to, I think they need a refresher in auditing 101.

I hope you keep in touch (and register)with the forum and give us updates.

Good Luck!

ASD...

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Marc Smith
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Posts: 4119
From:West Chester, OH, USA
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posted 19 March 2001 06:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have had clients deal with this by using a matrix which contained part numbers vs. process or simply putting multiple part numbers on the control plan.

Part specific control plans are silly when you can do it by family.

->I understand that they can request this "Section II", but
->he is saying he shouldn't have to, it is in the book.

So - you got an idiot a__hole for an auditor this time. Better luck next time.

It is also my understanding that you only have to have control plans to address automotive parts you make - not every part.

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Laura M
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Posts: 299
From:Rochester, NY US
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 19 March 2001 07:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Laura M   Click Here to Email Laura M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Marc,

Unfortunately the "idiot" you refer to is the customer this time, and it may not go away as easy as the 3rd party - where they have formal complaint channels. My guess is the customer rep is either inexperienced, was told (notice I didn't say 'trained') to ask for a PCP for each part number, and then could not find his/her way out of a wet paper bag if it wasn't on the checklist.

I would have them site the clause they are referring to and what does Section II have to do with it? Did Delphi publish their own Section II customer specifics? Was it provided with contract review? Section 2 Customer specific requirements aren't at the whim of the auditor or even particular division of Delphi you may be working with. If they've published an equivalent the the B3 Section 2 requirements, I'd like to see it. I've asked periodically and come up empty.

A little punchy tonite, sorry.

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Marc Smith
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Posts: 4119
From:West Chester, OH, USA
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posted 19 March 2001 08:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
->I would have them site the clause they are referring to
->and what does Section II have to do with it?

I agree. "Show me where it says that." is key. Thanks.

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Annd
Lurker (<10 Posts)

Posts: 6
From:Saginaw MI USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 20 March 2001 08:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Annd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You are right "show me" is the best way to go. Before I do anything else for them I will find out where it is written. With regards to Section II, the original purchase order issued to us was from GM, they just amend it, this document requires Section II, we have to use GM's web site for our PRR's and in turn the GM 9000 manual is required(Auditor). Our Auditor believes Delphi to be Section II, and we are under the impression anyone can call it out. We also address Customer specifics in our system. We are preparing to say "no problem but there will be an additional charge", that may just do it.

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