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  APQP and PPAP
  Part Approval and IQC

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Author Topic:   Part Approval and IQC
Johnny Chow
unregistered
posted 07 May 2001 06:54 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From: "Johnny Chow(QA-M200)"
To: "'Marc'"
Subject: PART APPROVAL & IQC
Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 11:32:20 +0800

Dear Forum,

I hope to seek yr professional advice on the below.

We have a Business Unit doing Contract Manufacturing or OEM. And the unit is currently buying and assemble parts - machine parts, electrical and mechanical std parts prior finished goods delivery.

Our customer insist that no incoming inspection and no Part Approval at the initial start and incoming material. He put it that the vendor must supply according to the spec given. The vendor selection and approval process must ensure that we got the right supplier. Emphasis on purchasing control too.

But I thought the other way round. No inspection. How to establish ? What criteria and judgement presented ? Or I further stressed at least a Part Approval process must be run to review the vendor process capability and the ultimatum the part's quality of fulfilling the dwg. But he indicated that vendor's process shall be done during vendor qualifcation.

We're seeking this BU for ISO 9000 scope extension audit very soon ?

Pls advise.

BR
Johnny Chow
Corporate QA Manager
Scarborough (HK) Ltd
Tel : (86)-769-2172178 Ext : 662
Fax : (86)-769-2171193

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D.Scott
Forum Contributor

Posts: 37
From:Wellington, OH USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 07 May 2001 08:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for D.Scott   Click Here to Email D.Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Johnny - sounds like your customer is telling you HE doesn't want to do incoming inspection and expects you to ensure your supplier meets the requirements. I don't see this as telling you that you can't use incoming inspection or whatever else(including PPAP) to qualify your supplier. It would make sense that you use whatever practice you feel gives you confidence that you are purchasing good product, then maintain your own controls to ensure your customer is satisfied.

If this situation came up with one of our customers, I would go through the entire PPAP process and hold the information internally. This way I would feel confident that my process was meeting the requirements too.

Do what you always do to ensure conformance to customer requirements and you shouldn't go too far wrong. Trying to re-invent the wheel could lead to confusion and errors.

Dave

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Howard Atkins
Forum Wizard

Posts: 202
From:Israel
Registered:

posted 07 May 2001 08:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Howard Atkins   Click Here to Email Howard Atkins     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have difficulty in properly understanding.
You are assemblying parts and your customer does not want to check them.
You though must know wether the parts you receive are good and if your process is also correct.
I agree with Dave, request and approve PPAP from your supplier and produce and internal PPAP for yourselves.
I understand why you customer does not want to inspect but I do not understand why he does not want to approve an initial part.
Without this approval how can there be an agreement on an aceptable part!!!
Good Luck

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Marc Smith
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Posts: 4119
From:West Chester, OH, USA
Registered:

posted 08 May 2001 07:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From: "Johnny Chow(QA-M200)"
To: "'Marc'"
Subject: APQP & IQC
Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 08:48:04 +0800

Dear Forum member,

Thank you for initiating this forum.

I wish to add to my points. This customer is a UK company. We're his localization manufacturer here in China. The customer Mr R is from the parent company, UK Procurement Manager. And now he's also responsible to run the BU as the Div Manager.

He insisted no incoming inspection because he thought his parent company could be doing so. He also advised me to visit his company to see for myself. He's also selling the idea of TQM, no inspection and everybody will just be responsible for his job. Quality should be built-in. This customer I mean Mr R will be happy if I just follow him. I found that he preaches a lot of TQM stuff but hardly understand how to make it best to application. Well he's not a Quality guy anyway.

I wish to stand firm on this. Customer is not always right. I felt he does not understand the ISO 9000. I'm questioning what element of ISO 9000 1994 version or 2000 version will be best suited to hit this precisely. I know QS 9000 would easily solve this issue.

Thanks for your professinal advice. This forum is great.

I find no way to go in via the forum web. Therefore I put in thru Contact Us. Could you lead me correctly.

BR
Johnny Chow
Corporate QA Manager
Scarborough (HK) Ltd
Tel : (86)-769-2172178 Ext : 662
Fax : (86)-769-2171193

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Sam
Forum Contributor

Posts: 244
From:
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 09 May 2001 09:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sam   Click Here to Email Sam     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Johnny, You state,
"We have a Business Unit doing Contract Manufacturing or OEM. And the unit is currently buying and assemble parts - machine parts, electrical and mechanical std parts prior finished goods delivery."

I wiil assume that you have work instructions and in-process inspection.

"1- Our customer insist that no incoming inspection and no Part Approval at the initial start and incoming material. 2-He put it that the vendor must supply according to the spec given. 3-The vendor selection and approval process must ensure that we got the right supplier. 4-Emphasis on purchasing control too."

1- This is acceptable, but requires a lot of contact with the customer.
2- Correct
3- Correct, if you are selecting the supplier, then you need to make sure he can do the job.
4- Excellent idea. QC should work in concert with purchasing.

"1-But I thought the other way round. No inspection. How to establish ? What criteria and judgement presented ? 2-Or I further stressed at least a Part Approval process must be run to review the vendor process capability and the ultimatum the part's quality of fulfilling the dwg. 3-But he indicated that vendor's process shall be done during vendor qualifcation"

1- You are correct in your thinking. I would suggest that you do some receiving inspection to establish the comfort zone with your supplier.

2- Again you are correct, a part approval should be required.

3- I agree. What your customer wants is similar to the "Daimler/Chrysler" Process Sign Off (PSO). This is a team made up of representatives from the supplier and customer (You) that meet at the suppliers facility and approve/disapprove the product and the process.

Your customers request is not off base. There are a lot of companies that work this way, including automotive suppliers. In fact the "Big 3" does the same thing.

IMO the concept will work if you establish a good working relationship with your supplier.

In you following post you state;
" 1- I wish to stand firm on this. Customer is not always right. 2- I felt he does not understand the ISO-9000. 3- I'm questioning what element of ISO-9000 version will be best suited to hit this precisely"

1- True, but he pays the bills.

2- Neither does anyone else. We all interpret it differently. We just have to arrive at a consensus of understanding.

3- 4.10.2.1, Key word "otherwise verified".

Strictly my opinions. I hope I haven't confused the issue too much.

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