The Elsmar Cove Business Standards Discussion Forums More Free Files Forum Discussion Thread Post Attachments Listing Elsmar Cove Discussion Forums Main Page
Welcome to what was The Original Cayman Cove Forums!
This thread is carried over and continued in the Current Elsmar Cove Forums

Search the Elsmar Cove!

Wooden Line
This is a "Frozen" Legacy Forum.
Most links on this page do NOT work.
Discussions since 2001 are HERE

Owl Line
The New Elsmar Cove Forums   The New Elsmar Cove Forums
  Measurement, Test and Calibration
  Calibration and Heirarchy of Standards

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Calibration and Heirarchy of Standards
Mark W
Lurker (<10 Posts)

Posts: 6
From:
Registered: Feb 99

posted 11 February 1999 07:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mark W     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I work at a small automotive manufacturing company (approximately 100 employees at my division) and have been working in the quality department for a couple of years now. Our calibration program is pretty weak and we are attempting to rebuild and strengthen the system.
While working on this project I am strugling with the concept of "calibrating against certified equipment having a known valid relationship to nationally recognized standards". I am not sure if a gage has to be calibrated directly to our highest in-house standard, or if calibrating a gage to this standard and then using this gage to calibrate another measuring instrument is acceptable or not.
A typical example is as follows. I was informed by someone that our gage pin set(pins in increments of .001") has to be sent out to an outside lab for calibration and thereby recieve a certification that is traceable to NIST. The only gaging that we currently do this for is our highest in-house standard, a set of gage blocks. These blocks are used to maintain traceability to NIST with our in-house calibrations. The pin set is a shop floor working set that is used for a variety of tasks, i.e. measuring a depth over a radius broached feature with OD Mics., go/no-go diameters of holes and slots, etc. My question is this. Is it acceptable practice to calibrate a set of .0001" OD mics. against our highest level gage block set, and then calibrate the pin set with the micrometers? I understand that the measuring accuracy of what I am using the pins for will probably impact the justification for this so what if instead I carried out the same procedure but instead of using an OD micrometer, I used a laser micrometer with an accuracy of +/- .00002"?
I am trying to justify what are acceptable calibration methods to industry standards at a level that will ensure our gages will adequately provide quality product at the most economical cost. Please help.

IP: Logged

Kevin Mader
Forum Wizard

Posts: 575
From:Seymour, CT USA
Registered: Nov 98

posted 12 February 1999 09:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin Mader   Click Here to Email Kevin Mader     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mark,

I have used a similar approach with our inhouse calibration activities with success. The registrar who reviewed this area was concerned that the general calibration record keeping was current, complete, was done by a trained associate, and demonstrated the "10 factor". The Registrar was also looking to see what percentage of calibration we did inhouse vs. sending out. He mentioned that he was happy to see that only the gaging we did not have the inhouse expertise to handle was sourced out. Remember: compliance and "effectiveness".

Using a micrometer to calibrate a pin gage, under most circumstances, is sufficient. Using a super mic or a laser mic is better, but not necessarily necessary (use the 10 Factor, 10x as sensitive). Use what gives you the most security. Just be sure that you are aware of the class of the Master gage blocks (probably the highest class) and the pin/plug sets and if the pin/plug sets are plus or minus pins.

I have read that many companies tend to send out all their gages for calibration to either avoid having to understand the qualifying/calibration activities or because they don't want to do it. This is neither cost effective or necessary. Your attempt to contain cost is, in my opinion, correct. A good, quick read you may want to consider is "Managing the Metrology System" by C. Robert Pennella. It will give you a pretty good overview of the Metrology process.

Back to the group...

[This message has been edited by Kevin Mader (edited 02-12-99).]

IP: Logged

Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

Posts: 4119
From:West Chester, OH, USA
Registered:

posted 19 February 1999 05:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
All I can do is echo the 10X factor and that even though you send them out, someone still has to understand measurement systems (per MSA). Being automotive you have to do more than for ISO.

IP: Logged

Mark W
Lurker (<10 Posts)

Posts: 6
From:
Registered: Feb 99

posted 29 March 1999 09:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mark W     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the input. I'll be sure to pick up a copy of that book you suggested.

IP: Logged

Batman
Forum Contributor

Posts: 111
From:Kane, PA 16735
Registered:

posted 30 March 1999 12:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Batman   Click Here to Email Batman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I too echo Kevin and Mark, and add a couple of items to consider.
If the pin calibration by your own equipment serves, and can help reduce costs, go for it. I have seen this work well, and I have seen it deteriorate. Pins for example will wear at the edges, depending upon the product being measured, and unless you can detect this with your calibration equipment you could pass bad parts. Using a super mic or Laser, care must be taken to be able to detect this wear.

Also, since the Laser is a two-point contact method, any odd-numbered lobing on the pins may not be detected.

If you are using these pins to measure and approve features that are "critical," the calibration procedure and records should stand up to scrutiny.

I recommend good calibration procedures, good records, and a controlled environment for that calibration.

Just a couple of things to consider.

IP: Logged

All times are Eastern Standard Time (USA)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply Hop to:

Contact Us | The Elsmar Cove Home Page

Your Input Into These Forums Is Appreciated! Thanks!


Main Site Search
Y'All Come Back Now, Ya Hear?
Powered by FreeBSD!Made With A Mac!Powered by Apache!