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  Measurement, Test and Calibration
  MSA - tools and equipment

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Author Topic:   MSA - tools and equipment
narfeldt
Forum Contributor

Posts: 12
From:Landskona, Skne, Sweden
Registered: May 2000

posted 30 May 2000 02:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for narfeldt   Click Here to Email narfeldt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I help a company with implementation of QS9000 and its MSA.
#1
My question is wich tools and equipment should be analysed?
#2
How often should I analys our tools and equipment?

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chen
Forum Contributor

Posts: 19
From:dongguan,guangdong,p.r.china
Registered: Nov 98

posted 30 May 2000 07:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chen   Click Here to Email chen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
#1 which tools and equipment should be analysed?
-> all of the measuremnet systems for inspection and testing under QS scope.
#2 How often should I analys our tools and equipment?
-> no standard. we follow our procedure for msa control and do it quarterly.
-> i think that is no problem if you define the frenquency and follow it.

gary chen

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Martin
Forum Contributor

Posts: 18
From:The Netherlands
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 31 May 2000 03:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Martin   Click Here to Email Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Chen,
A question for you because we also do a MSA on all our equipment, but to my opinion you can only do a MSA on the equipment concerning special characteristics. What is your opinion on that? Because I heard an auditor say that this is enough!!

Hope to hear from you!

Greetings,
Martin

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Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

Posts: 4119
From:West Chester, OH, USA
Registered:

posted 31 May 2000 08:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"...#1 which tools and equipment should be analysed?..."

Only M&TE which is used for inspection / test (such as for measurement of 'special characteristics') must be calibrated and have an R&R or other uncertainty analysis.

"...#2 How often should I analys our tools and equipment?..."

Do a search here for "frequency" or "calibration frequency" (without the quotes). Calibration frequency depends upon the equipment and what it is used for. Many companies start off using the manufacturer's recommended frequency unless they have similar equipment and extrapolate from that.

As far as R&R, typically once a year.

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Atul Khandekar
Forum Contributor

Posts: 21
From:Pune, India
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 31 May 2000 08:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Atul Khandekar   Click Here to Email Atul Khandekar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Only those tools that are covered under 'Control Plan' (as Marc Smith has mentioned above) NEED to be taken under MSA, unless there are any customer specific requirements.

As for frequency, you again need to consult your customer. I have seen customers who insist on an R&R report with every consignment!

-Atul

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chen
Forum Contributor

Posts: 19
From:dongguan,guangdong,p.r.china
Registered: Nov 98

posted 31 May 2000 07:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chen   Click Here to Email chen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Martin:
if you want to do a MSA only on the equipment concerning S.C,i think it is better to get a waiver from your customers(big3 or ...). we aslo got a waiver from Delphi-Delco for some M&TE we did not want to perform a Msa study on.

have a nice day!

gary chen

[This message has been edited by chen (edited 31 May 2000).]

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Laura M
Forum Contributor

Posts: 299
From:Rochester, NY US
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 31 May 2000 10:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Laura M   Click Here to Email Laura M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"did not want to " or didn't make sense too.

Personally, I think "waivers" take more time than the common sense approach. If common sense is used by the supplier and registrar, then less bother to the customer for "waivers"

I remember an auditor insisting that ALL inspections are on a Control plan, then MSA's are required for all measurements specified on a control plan. Hours spent doing attribute R&R's with no common sense on what the product needs really were.

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mbruner
Forum Contributor

Posts: 11
From:Greenwood,IN,USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 01 June 2000 04:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mbruner   Click Here to Email mbruner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
RE: Quote
"..auditor insisting that ALL inspections are on a Control plan, then MSA's are required for all measurements specified on a control plan."
Chrysler requires GRR on all gages used in the process, regardless of whether they're in the control plan.

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Sam
Forum Contributor

Posts: 244
From:
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 02 June 2000 09:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sam   Click Here to Email Sam     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
IMO;
MSA is required for submittal IAW I.2.2.10 of PPAP manual for special characteristics.

MSA is required IAW 4.11.4 of the QSR for measurement systems referenced in the control plan and,maybe, in general.

Use in conjunction with the terms "suitable and effective".

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