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  Measurement, Test and Calibration
  Gage R&R for a destructive Test

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Author Topic:   Gage R&R for a destructive Test
Lurker (<10 Posts)

Posts: 2
Registered: May 2001

posted 21 May 2001 09:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RLBredeweg   Click Here to Email RLBredeweg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Gage R&R for destructive Test-
What the test is is called is a "weld breakout test" they use a hydraulic
press with a gage(Pressure meter) that reads in psi the part is fixtured and
a ball on the end of the press comes down and pushes on the weld seam -
Minimum specification for fracture is 3,000 Lbs. - No Max spec (infinity) or
weld fracture. What I was considering is to verify the accuracy of the gage
with a certified strain gage for correlation to the psi meter and than to
review the last 30 days of measurement recordings (which I found out were
being recorded as pass/fail)
I have to respond back for a CAR written by our Registrar ASAP Can any body give a suggestion?

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Dan Larsen
Forum Contributor

Posts: 137
From:Sussex, WI
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 21 May 2001 04:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dan Larsen   Click Here to Email Dan Larsen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My experience is with hardness measurements...may be similar, maybe not.

First, you should consider the gage R&R not in terms of the actual test as much as the unit being used for the test. Use (if available) a standard for your pressure machine. Use the same standard, across a variety of operators, and the classic GRR procedure to calculate operator and machine influence. (NOTE: This is NOT a true GRR, but it is a gage CAPABILIY.)

You can use the gage CAPABILITY in conjuntion with PROCESS CAPABILITY (your historical test values) to determine a true GRR.

This is too ornate to try to explain here...I suggest Concepts for R&R Studies by Larry Barrentine for a more thorough evaluation. Or send me private e-mail or give me a call...see my profile.

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Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

Posts: 4119
From:West Chester, OH, USA

posted 21 May 2001 05:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From Spaceman Spiff a while back:

-> The best method I found for MSA on destructive testing is
-> through using the ISOPlot method developed by Dr. Dorian
-> Shainin (see for information).
-> Basically, I would take 2 consecutive samples as a group
-> and collect a total of 30 groups. Next I would use sample
-> 1 of each group as Trial 1 and sample 2 of each group as
-> Trial 2. Then I would plot Trial 1 versus Trial 2 and
-> determine the discremination ratio. It is very similar to
-> correlation, but the method of calculating discrimination
-> ratio is the key to qualify the measurement system. There
-> is a software to do this from Shainin
-> ( ).
-> Check it out!

[This message has been edited by Marc Smith (edited 21 May 2001).]

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Brian Dowsett
Forum Contributor

Posts: 35
From:Waterford, Ireland
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 13 June 2001 12:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Brian Dowsett   Click Here to Email Brian Dowsett     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The way I got around this (albeit for a Q1 audit) was to build a rig that simulated the thing being tested. So if we're applying force to a weld to destruction, build a rig that "gives" at a typical range of values, maybe by lifting a set weight through a lever system.



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