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  Falsification of Documentation

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Author Topic:   Falsification of Documentation
jerry
unregistered
posted 24 May 2001 05:15 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have been a QA now for over 5 years. I started working with a new employeer about 6 months ago. We recently went through our QS audit, to be able to pass, I was required to falsify quality doucumentation. I'm just sick about it. I've never had to lie to pass an audit before in my life. Sence this audit, I have come to realize that falsifing, cover up's, lieing, and BS is my department heads S.O.P.. I dont like my job anymore. We should have never had to do this, and I dont want quilt of having to do this hanging over my head. I dont sleep much anymore. I need some advice. I want to let somebody no that honest people are being required to do this, there is not of employment where I work, I've been looking, and cant just quit, and hang my wife and children. Help!

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Jerry Eldred
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Posts: 136
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posted 24 May 2001 10:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jerry Eldred   Click Here to Email Jerry Eldred     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I worked for a company a number of years ago that didn't exactly require that of me, but I had the only real documentation on the site, and so they fenaggled (sp?) steering the auditors to my lab. Another company (previous one) I turned my manager in for falsification. To keep the innocent protected, I will be deliberately vague (possibly even adjust some details). There were some people involved in a field assignment for the company. One from one office, another brought in from a different one. One person from one of the offices claimed on paperwork that certain work was done requiring certain equipment. The other person knew that the first person had not brought the equipment with him(or her). After the job, the other person turned the matter in to mamagement. Management pretended not to hear, and carried through the falsification to the customer. This was escalated to the point that my manager essentially lied to upper management. I was given a written warning (a total lie).

I immediately looked for another job. I took my time in my job hunting to be sure I didn't "jump from the frying pan to the fire". I spent actually two more years with the bad company until I found a good position. I developed some significant healt problems while I was at that position, and never regretted for one minute leaving.

Life is too short. Do your best to maintain your integrity. If upper management at your company is basically honest, invest some thought and time figuring out how to present an honest picture to them. Most people in Quality jobs are of the highest integrity, and enjoy helping companies be successful through doing the right things. I love my work at a large company that although it is far from perfect, I work with upper management who truly want to be successful through honesty. In the long run that will serve any company the best.

If you determine that your upper management is not supportive of integrity, you may wish to consider looking for another position. I have often given the lecture one-on-one that life is too short. You have to be happy in your work. Sometimes it is worthwhile to do your best and put up with issues until you can find something better.

As this is a measurement and calibration forum, I don't want to use too much space on this. Hope I helped some in your dilemma.

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Randy
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Posts: 228
From:Barstow, CA, USA
Registered: Jun 1999

posted 24 May 2001 11:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randy   Click Here to Email Randy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Been there ...done that Jerry.

Do what you need to do without violating your personal ethics. Use your current position to punch your card so you can move on. We come into this world with very few things, and integrity is one of them.

Don't get too discouraged.

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Laura M
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Posts: 299
From:Rochester, NY US
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 24 May 2001 12:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Laura M   Click Here to Email Laura M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I never falsified nor was asked to falsify. I found out someone did without my knowledge and went balistic (I was Management Rep)
From then on, everyone knew my position, including upper management. I told them exactly what I would do to maintain my integrity - that the company wasn't above that. Of course, i did have a bit of job security at the time.

Anyway - keep the chin up - if possible explain that nothing you do will be falsified.

In a current situation, I was "asked"; not told to "cheat." Their word for "if it's too hard find a way we don't have to do it."
Ain't happening yet, and if I get told again, I'm walking and they know it.

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energy
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Posts: 228
From:New Britain, CT
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 24 May 2001 01:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for energy   Click Here to Email energy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jerry,I too have experienced pressure to ăfalsifyä documents. It happened when I was real young. Full of myself and confident that I was right, I refused to do it. My Manager said ă You wonât?ä. Nope. He then proceeded to tell me to write it the way I would feel comfortable signing the document. With thought and careful wording, it was sent to him for approval and it was accepted. There were no further attempts to force me to do something that I felt was dishonest. That was then, this is now. I see a lot of shady stuff going on, particularly in the environmental arena, and it is in my domain. Jobs like ours are harder to obtain now due to age and the abundance of young, ambitious quality career types. You owe it to your family and yourself to tread carefully. Unless you are independently wealthy and the job is just a hobby or youâre self-employed, the threat of loss of employment is real. Youâre not considered a team player. There are plenty of dishonest qualified people out there to replace you. Start your job search and move on. For me, my signature will not appear on any documents that donât meet my standards in respect to honesty, accuracy and ethics. It is known that if you want my authorizing signature, it has to be right. You would be amazed how many ădocumentsä have other authorizing signatures. Doesnât bother me a bit.
Good luck and hang tough!
energy

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Ken K
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Posts: 44
From:Wisconsin, USA
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 24 May 2001 01:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken K     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Been there...but have not done it.

I have been asked many times in the past to "come up with" data for PPAP's that are due tomorrow. The people requesting knew long before they asked that testing was needed, only they kept putting it off. So I do the only thing I can...make them wait for the data.
I probably have saved every suspicious email sent to me to protect my butt if anything comes up. It's amazing how it jogs the memory when they say they never asked that.
Keep your head up Jerry and don't do it again if asked if your integrity is on the line. Some things just are not worth it.

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John
unregistered
posted 01 June 2001 12:34 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In my first position in the quality field I was asked to falsify test data. When I refused, I was ordered to do it. I gave my 30 day notice but they said they wanted me to stay. Fortunately I found a much better position several weeks later.

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JRKH
Forum Contributor

Posts: 10
From:Cincinnati, Ohio
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 07 June 2001 02:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JRKH     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It seems many of us are in similar boats. I agree with the rest when they say hang tough. You may only be able to control a small area, but make sure its honest. Stick by your guns as much as you can. Try not to totally hack anybody off but gently assure that as long as you run your area, it will be done right. If nothing else, it might just make cheating more work for them than doing it right.

Just a note to energy regarding his comment about "dishonest, qualified people". In my opinion dishonest and qualified do not go together in the quality field.

Have a great day.

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energy
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Posts: 228
From:New Britain, CT
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 07 June 2001 03:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for energy   Click Here to Email energy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
JRKH,
You're right! I guess what I meant was there are qualified ambitious individuals who are more apt to bend with the wind. I also don't believe there are any of those kind who would post to this site. No offense intended.

energy

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qaronnie
unregistered
posted 07 June 2001 06:29 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
stick to your integrity. Recently being a witness to our maintenance audit I was quite surprised at all the "wiggling" that management did to meet what we were told to fix at the last minute. This "wiggling" may have made me a little uncomfortable but I also watched to make sure that no falsification occured. After the audit I sat and talked both with my boss and the plant manager to get there take on this and found that tho there attitude may have been blaazay (sp)that they did take this seriously and were more than ready to go and correct the areas that created the senario that created this problem so that it didn't arise in the future. My take on it was that more frequent and thurou (sp again.. I just woke up) detailed internal audits would have not only found these but presented the corrective actions necessary to prevent system breakdowns and the wiggling or even falsifying to cover them up. Personally I have pushed for more frequent internal audits throughout the year rather than the rush 3 weeks before the external audit.

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hansamyeung
Lurker (<10 Posts)

Posts: 1
From:88 Gaoping of Sanjiao town,zhongshan cityGuangdong
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 13 June 2001 06:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hansamyeung   Click Here to Email hansamyeung     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think it is so bad influence to quality system documentation, although the following audit would be passed, all employees in company think quality system is so no true, especially some Manufacturing departments guy don't think implement to much documentation, still can be passed, so hope everytimes will make falsification. some system problem can be explained to auditor, but it must be factual, no need to spend manpower and other cost....

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barb butrym
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Posts: 637
From:South Central Massachusetts
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posted 14 June 2001 10:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for barb butrym   Click Here to Email barb butrym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
been there.....hated it. Reputation and integrity are much too important to me as well.

I responded via email, with a cc to his boss that said....basically....I hear what you are asking, and in all good conscious I need to alert you this violates p#xxxxx of mil std. xxxxx and if you want me to continue I need a formal written request. I suggest we handle it this way....... Obviously I never got the request...........!!!!!!

long story short....he was gone eventually after other attempts and similar responses, and I got his job

[This message has been edited by barb butrym (edited 14 June 2001).]

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Laura M
Forum Contributor

Posts: 299
From:Rochester, NY US
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 14 June 2001 12:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Laura M   Click Here to Email Laura M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Barb....Welcome back.

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Al Dyer
Forum Wizard

Posts: 622
From:Lapeer, MI USA
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 14 June 2001 08:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Al Dyer   Click Here to Email Al Dyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ditto
ditto
ditto

ASD...

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