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Author Topic:   certified suppliers
David Mullins
unregistered
posted 02 November 1999 08:04 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do 'certified' supplier provide better performance than non-certified suppliers. Does anyone know of factual data that compares the performance of certified vs non-certified suppliers?

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Andy Bassett
Forum Contributor

Posts: 274
From:Donegal Ireland
Registered: Jun 1999

posted 06 November 1999 12:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Andy Bassett   Click Here to Email Andy Bassett     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting question

When many years ago working as a Purchase manager being interviewed by an ISO consultant about how my dept satsifies (or didnt) the ISO 9001 element on Purchasing, i asked him if he would like to see my evidence that certified suppliers were actually delivering worst quality than none- certified suppliers.

Althoug i was bluffing out of badness, his nervous shifting in his seat told me that he may believe this to be true. Now before the ISO freeks jump out of their seat i should tell you a story.

When recently working as a ....ISO Consultant, a company that i had implemented a system into showed me their 6 month old Supplier List, and of 6 'Blocked/Dropped' supplier guess how many did not have ISO.
5?

I am sceptical about companies saying that they are better becuase they have ISO, but if i had no other way of verifing a suppliers ability, and i was faced with a choice between a supplier that had ISO and supplier that didnt, i would opt for the supplier with it.

------------------
Andy B

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Kevin Mader
Forum Wizard

Posts: 575
From:Seymour, CT USA
Registered: Nov 98

posted 08 November 1999 09:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin Mader   Click Here to Email Kevin Mader     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
David,

I read an article a couple of months back, the article based on whether or not ISO benefits were noticable. Dr. Juran's response was right on the money, IMHO. He mentioned that ISO in itself falls short for an organization. An organization must do more to be successful. In addition, he warned the reader about the troubles of enumerative studies such as this, such that no single group has approached this as an analytical problem, and the results of previous studies should be viewed as informational only.

So are organizations that are registered better than those that aren't? Probably not. I couldn't lean toward a company that was ISO registered over a company that was not to manufacture a part. What might sway organizations to select the registered company might not have anything to do at all with Quality. Instead, selection may be based on Customer perception and the ease of their own Approved Supplier List maintenance.

The ISO frenzy is clouding judgement. ISO is not a cure all solution. When the dust settles, I think many folks will realize that Dr. Juran is right.

Regards,

Kevin

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Roger Eastin
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Posts: 345
From:Greenville, SC
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posted 08 November 1999 09:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Roger Eastin   Click Here to Email Roger Eastin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The other thing to watch for here is that suppliers will use words like, "ISO compliant" or something along those lines. It does not mean ISO registered (3rd party), it simply means that they want to take advantage of the "market aspects" of ISO, but not to necessarily change/document their quality system. Yes, I agree, that ISO is just a beginning for any quality system. We have spent many threads discussing that one! (I'm sure anyone can review the old forum for some interesting discussion there.)

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Kevin Mader
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Posts: 575
From:Seymour, CT USA
Registered: Nov 98

posted 08 November 1999 01:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin Mader   Click Here to Email Kevin Mader     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Roger,

You bring up a good point, as you normally do, regarding "ISO Compliant". I think that it might be a good idea for any organization to consider whether or not an ISO registration means anything to themselves, or their customers. This is especially true of an organization that is not interested in the added cost of ISO, but still would like to apply the guidelines to the construction of their own QS. Formalized or not, the organization may adopt in part, or in whole, the essence of the standard.

The problem as I see it is two fold. Many organizations that could be compliant with ISO, but do not value the "marketing edge" it may bring, could be overlooked prematurely by an organization smitten with ISO registration as a requirement. Also, those organizations whom require ISO may be acting on false preconceptions that ISO means Quality. Either way, good partnerships can be overlooked for the wrong reasons, or bad ones created for all the "right" reasons. My feeling; more often the bad relationships will be created because an organization places to much value on an ISO registration. A good company, whether ISO registered or not, stands a better chance at establishing partnerships because their reputation precedes them.

My opinion, I would rather be compliant, but not necessarily registered. ISO in my estimation accounts for very little in creating a Quality Culture. But it is a customer requirement, so we are.

Regards,

Kevin

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Dawn
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Posts: 245
From:St. Marys, PA
Registered: Sep 98

posted 08 November 1999 09:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dawn   Click Here to Email Dawn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As far as suppliers being compliant instead of registered, I think is merely because management wants all the benefits of certification without the cost, resource, obligation, time and energy put into deserving the certificate. But they want customers to think they are gunho so they imply they are compliant.
I evaluate suppliers, and if it is done to get benefit instead of simply abiding by the standard, I must say there can be quite a difference in registered suppliers and so-called compliant suppliers. And I would pick a supplier who is registered over one who isn't. Because there is a difference in a company who is registered to a standard requiring calibration and a company who is interested in just-in-time get it out the door and make a buck manufacturing.

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David Mullins
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Posts: 248
From:Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 09 November 1999 06:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for David Mullins   Click Here to Email David Mullins     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
All very valid stuff. In my searches so far the closest I have come to any real performance survey of suppliers is a UK study which concentrated on defining a world's best practice model for suppliers, which stated that ISO is nice, but a supplier with an engrained TQM culture will provide you with the best service/cost/delivery/product (quality).
Being hard-nosed, I'd still like to see an actual report/survey that compares the performance of suppliers at various levels of recognised achievement. E.g. non-certified; ISO 9001/2/3 certified; TQM recognised; Award winners (Baldrige and the like). Has anyone seen such a beast?
PS-I had to register to get this reply on to my own thread!

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