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  Forms, Level 4

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Author Topic:   Forms, Level 4
Joe_1
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Posts: 19
From:AL
Registered: May 99

posted 20 May 1999 05:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Joe_1   Click Here to Email Joe_1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We are currently seeking QS9000 registration. The question that I have is one concerning forms, tags, and labels. We have a great number of tags, forms, and documents (level 4 ) here. Our forms have form numbers, issue dates, and revision levels. However, our tags (that identify the status of parts) and labels do not have a form number, rev level, and issue date. I recently visited a ISO9000 contractor and noticed that their tags and labels did in fact have at least a form number attatched to them. I am wondering if we should implement form numbers on all the labels and tags? Please advise me on the correct way to handle level 4.....please!

Thank you for your help!
Joe W. Guy, Jr.
QS9000 Admin.

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Tom Goetzinger
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Posts: 123
From:Milwaukee, WI USA
Registered: Mar 99

posted 21 May 1999 09:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tom Goetzinger   Click Here to Email Tom Goetzinger     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Joe,
I would suggest that you control your tags and labels with form numbers and rev levels. There is no other way to ensure that only the correct and current ones are in use. I've worked in organizations where different areas had different tags and labels to do the same thing; it was confusing, to say the least, and did cause problems when workers were moved around the various assembly areas. Adding them to the document control system helped alot.

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Joe_1
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Posts: 19
From:AL
Registered: May 99

posted 21 May 1999 11:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Joe_1   Click Here to Email Joe_1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks TOM, but I have more.... We do control our tags,labels, and forms to an extent. What we do is, that on tags,stickers, and labels, the DOCUMENT number is placed on a master that is kept in the physical QA/QC manual (hard copy of the book). However, the ones that we use on the shop floor and in operations do not list the form number, rev date, etc as like the "master" that is located in the Quality manual, level 4 section. The idea that I aquired from another person here in the Quality dept is that if the curent tag, label, sticker, etc. was in the manual, and that the manual is completely correct and up to date, then there is no need that we place document numbers on tags, labels, and stickers. Would this pose as a potential Quality Problem (nonconformance)for the upcoming registration audit (QS9000)? What I think, and please tell me if I'm wrong, is that true, the "master" is correct in the manual itself, but how do we really know that the tags, labels, and stickers that we are using currently on the physical shop floor and processes are actually the correct rev? To me, there is a potential Quality Control problem that could result here. I gues my question is, should every single tage, label, sticker and form that we use here have the same DOC number, issue date and rev. level just as the "master"?? Please advise....
Thanks,
Joe W. Guy, Jr.
QS9000 Admin.

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Kevin Mader
Forum Wizard

Posts: 575
From:Seymour, CT USA
Registered: Nov 98

posted 21 May 1999 01:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin Mader   Click Here to Email Kevin Mader     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Joe,

There is nothing that requires you to be sure that all documents have document IDs on them (this is not a nonconformance of any type). Some times it is even impossible (the orginal "master" exists only in hardcopy format for instance). The advantage in having form IDs is that one could compare ID/Revision information without having to compare it visually (i.e. you have the Master List on your server with the correct information that can be compared from any location in the facility). Other than a little extra work, there is nothing wrong with doing it that way.

How do you know that the correct tags, lebels, etc are being used? I hope that your internal auditors would pick this up on the random audits. What I instruct my audit team to do is to collect documents while out on an audit to compare later with the Master Log. They could be auditing any aspect of the standard or area in the organization, it really doesn't matter. This way you ensure the right documents are being used and that new ones haven't crept into the system unknowingly.

Regards,

Kevin

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