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  ISO 9000: Drawing Control

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Author Topic:   ISO 9000: Drawing Control
dr madhavan
Forum Contributor

Posts: 10
From:Madras, Tamil Nadu, India
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 07 December 2000 10:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dr madhavan   Click Here to Email dr madhavan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Our Customers provide us with drawings for the manufacture of tools. Sometimes the drawings are incomplete; hence, our Manager makes some entries in the drawings (but does not change any existing dimensions)and also provides converted figures ( inches to mm and vice versa).
Are such corrections permitted to be made in the Customer provided drawings?
We have no facility to redraw the same.

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CarolX
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Posts: 108
From:Illinois, USA
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 08 December 2000 11:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for CarolX   Click Here to Email CarolX     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We also do the same if the customer has left off vital information, such as placement of an identification stamp.

We also have a customer that works in metrics, and we do not, so we convert the drawing by hand.

Only the assigned Engineer is permitted to make these notations on the master print. If claification was required from the customer, the contact and date will be noted on the master print.

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Rick Goodson
Forum Wizard

Posts: 102
From:Wuakesha, Wisconsin, USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 08 December 2000 11:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Goodson   Click Here to Email Rick Goodson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The standard is pretty clear in 4.5.3 that "Changes to documents and data shall be reviewed and approved by the same function/organizations that performed the original review and approval, unless specifically designated otherwise." You could create a process to notify the customer of the changes/additions you are making and then receive approval for making the changes.

You also need to be aware of the 4.4.6 and 4.4.9 requirement for design review and for design changes. You may have an issue there also.

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energy
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Posts: 228
From:New Britain, CT
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 08 December 2000 02:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for energy   Click Here to Email energy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As you are not changing the drawing, you can also do this:
Copy the drawing, or just excerpts of the drawing that you want to add "Notes"..stamp it as "Uncontrolled Document" and use it as a reference. That's permissable. They are not controlled documents, just a reference.

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Al Dyer
Forum Wizard

Posts: 622
From:Lapeer, MI USA
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 08 December 2000 08:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Al Dyer   Click Here to Email Al Dyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
dr,

Why are incomplete drawings accepted?

Shouldn't this be addressed during contract review?

Are feasibility studies in place?

Are you design responsible?

ASD...

------------------
Al Dyer
Mngt. Rep.
ullysses3@excite.com

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Marc Smith
Cheech Wizard

Posts: 4119
From:West Chester, OH, USA
Registered:

posted 08 December 2000 08:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc Smith   Click Here to Email Marc Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Al Dyer:

Why are incomplete drawings accepted? Shouldn't this be addressed during contract review? Are feasibility studies in place? Are you design responsible?

ASD...


I HATE logic..... (Tee hee hee-e-e!!!)

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dr madhavan
Forum Contributor

Posts: 10
From:Madras, Tamil Nadu, India
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 08 December 2000 09:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dr madhavan   Click Here to Email dr madhavan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Customer's drawing is for the finished product and final shape.
Our operators require some intermediate domensions for thier ease of operations ,which the customer may not bother.
Hence question of asking customer for any amendment may not feasible. Hence using Clause 4.3 to get situation does not arise.
On the other hand, the drawing size is too big and sometimes the product is complicated that to redraw this requires expertise which is very expensive for us. (On redrawing, we need to verify the drawing for correct transfers ?)
Regarding the units of measure, some customers' old drawing still refer to the FPS system and not the MKS or SI units. This puts additional problems for our operators who are exposed only to MKS / SI system? So, unit conversions on the drawings is a must.
Xeroxing also not feasible because of the size.
What do we do?
Any new suggestions?

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Al Dyer
Forum Wizard

Posts: 622
From:Lapeer, MI USA
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 09 December 2000 11:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Al Dyer   Click Here to Email Al Dyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
dr,

Our process is to take all customer drawings and redraw them in our own format. This means no change to the controlled customer drawing, but the need to control the internally generated drawing. This drawing is used as a reference tool for our operators (designers).

Give me a yell and I can put you in contact with some designers that will take your drawings and generate any type (usually acad) of internal drawing you need.

Depending on the complexity of your request, the cost could offer a substantial payback in time, effort, and compliance.

ASD...

------------------
Al Dyer
Mngt. Rep.
ullysses3@excite.com

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Sam
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Posts: 244
From:
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 11 December 2000 08:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sam   Click Here to Email Sam     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If money is the problem, and it sounds like it is,why not just prepare freehand sketches to be used only for manufacturing purposes.
Add a title, provide traceability back to the customer drawing, control them and you are home free.

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dr madhavan
Forum Contributor

Posts: 10
From:Madras, Tamil Nadu, India
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 11 December 2000 09:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dr madhavan   Click Here to Email dr madhavan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What Sam says is true in a way. Hand sketches are not possible in many cases, as the parts are very complicated.
The Management does not also think in terms of approving a draftsman or a CAD Operator.

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freeda
Forum Contributor

Posts: 26
From:Jeffersonville, IN
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 11 December 2000 02:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for freeda   Click Here to Email freeda     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Your situation is exactly like ours. We get a complete "finished" part drawing from our customer. This drawing isn't always feasible to use for all points of our manufacturing process, due to us having multiple operation machining processes, and plating tolerances, we cannot always use the dimensions called out on the customer's print.
What we do is retain a "clean" copy in the sales "contract review" file and then a copy is forwarded to me (Quality Manager), where I do all of the conversions (MM to Inches) and note any hold dimensions for plating allowances etc. Then I stamp it with a green QUALITY REVIEWED stamp. I initial and date the review. Then I forward the print to our document control center where it is filed by part number in the part master file. If the print is too large for the standard copier, prior to the Quality Review, we send it out to be reduced, but retain the original "large" print and stamp it For Information Only.
This is completely ok, because we don't alter any of the dimensions that make the final product. And the change to the document is initialed and dated and this date is maintained along with the print revision in our document control center.

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