ISO9001:2000 Versus Best for Business

We have been a certified ISO company for many years. My new boss told me recently that a company has the option not to included ISO Clauses in their business if they elect not to accept them as best business practices.

Is that true?

Rockanna said:

We have been a certified ISO company for many years. My new boss told me recently that a company has the option not to included ISO Clauses in their business if they elect not to accept them as best business practices. Is that true?

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I think your boss needs to review ISO2K. You can setup your business around good business practices, but you still need to cover the requirements. You need to marry the two. I'm sure that my Pal Roxy will have a whole page full of ways to do it.

I will assume that you have already upgraded to the 2K standard. Have you been through surveillence audits yet to the 2K standard?

The Taz! said:

I think your boss needs to review ISO2K. You can setup your business around good business practices, but you still need to cover the requirements.

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I agree. and here it is:

ISO9001:2000 said:

It should be noted that where the exclusions described in sub-clause 1.2 of EN ISO 9001:2000 are exceeded, conformity to EN ISO 9001:2000 shall not be claimed.

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ISO9001:2000 said:

Where exclusions are made, claims of conformity to this International Standard are not acceptable unless these exclusions are limited to requirements within clause 7, and such exclusions do not affect the organization's ability, or responsibility, to provide product that meets customer and applicable regulatory requirements.

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Pretty clear, imo.

/Claes

Thank you my Swedish Bro

The Taz! said:

I think your boss needs to review ISO2K. You can setup your business around good business practices, but you still need to cover the requirements.

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Claes Gefvenberg said:

Quote: (Originally Posted by ISO9001:2000, Foreword) It should be noted that where the exclusions described in sub-clause 1.2 of EN ISO 9001:2000 are exceeded, conformity to EN ISO 9001:2000 shall not be claimed.

Quote: (Originally Posted by ISO9001:2000, clause 1.2) Where exclusions are made, claims of conformity to this International Standard are not acceptable unless these exclusions are limited to requirements within clause 7, and such exclusions do not affect the organization's ability, or responsibility, to provide product that meets customer and applicable regulatory requirements.

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What they said!

The Taz! said:

You need to marry the two. I'm sure that my Pal Roxy will have a whole page full of ways to do it.

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Flatterer...I take back the comment about your drooling problem.

But back to the situation...

Rockanna said:

We have been a certified ISO company for many years. My new boss told me recently that a company has the option not to included ISO Clauses in their business if they elect not to accept them as best business practices.

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So far, you've seen that we may only exempt items from Clause 7, but only where the exemption does not adversely impact your ability to meet Customer requirements.

For example, we do not have a Sales office onsite...they simply give us the schedule. Sales falls under Clause 7. At first, we thought (and the Registrar agreed) that we could exclude 7.2. However, upon further analysis (by the Registrar), how can we meet Customer requirements if we don't technically know what the Customer requirements are (e.g., schedule gives grade and product dimensions, but how do we know where to ship to or if we supply the carrier, etc.).

I'm curious, though, to know what aspect of ISO 9001:2000 your boss feels is not inline with "best business practices." The Standard does not tell how to meet the requirements...that is left up to each organization to determine.

As my furry friend implied, your boss should perhaps learn more about ISO 9001:2000 by attending a course designed for managers. This could be something as simple as a misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the Standard.

RCBeyette said:

I'm curious, though, to know what aspect of ISO 9001:2000 your boss feels is not inline with "best business practices."

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Right. that's the key question. In a way your boss is right. You can of course exclude or use any part of the standad as you see fit... if you elect to skip certification, that is... If you want the badge you have to stick to the rules in 1.2.

Imo though, there should be no vs. between ISO9001 and best business practice: One does not exclude the other.

You can have both.

/Claes

Claes Gefvenberg said:

Right. that's the key question. In a way your boss is right. You can of course exclude or use any part of the standad as you see fit... if you elect to skip certification, that is... If you want the badge you have to stick to the rules in 1.2.

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Doesn't sound like an option for Rockanna, though. She mentioned that her organization has be registered for quite some time.

Claes Gefvenberg said:

Imo though, there should be no vs. between ISO9001 and best business practice: One does not exclude the other.

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True....but we should remember that one does not always include the other, too.

We have our Management System complete with tools and methodologies...all of which is in place to help us in our quest to become World Class. ISO 9001:2000 is one of those tools...but we would still have a System without registration (perhaps not quite a formal, though).

Claes Gefvenberg said:

You can have both.

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Very true...and very possible! Hmmm...it would appear that after Tazzie picked up my pompoms, he passed them on to you, Claes! We need a cheerleader emoticon!

RCBeyette said:

Very true...and very possible! Hmmm...it would appear that after Tazzie picked up my pompoms, he passed them on to you, Claes! We need a cheerleader emoticon!

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Now picture that. . . you, Claes and I . . .with Pom Poms and Cheerleader skirts leading the cheer! Even I'd pay to see that!

Q---U---A---L---I---T---Y . . .What does it spell!

RCBeyette said:

We need a cheerleader emoticon!

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As long as it isn't a hairy, drooling Taz, I'll agree.


On topic:

Much of ISO is the basic stuff. You can't get to "best practices" until your practices have reached a minimul level. One could argue that 9004 represents the "best practices", however many would say that 9004 is closer, but still not at that level.

db said:

As long as it isn't a hairy, drooling Taz, I'll agree.

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Poor Tazster! Not his fault he has hygeine problems....ahem, please note that was said while hiding behind db...

db said:

Much of ISO is the basic stuff. You can't get to "best practices" until your practices have reached a minimul level. One could argue that 9004 represents the "best practices", however many would say that 9004 is closer, but still not at that level.

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Any theories as to why many would say it's close but still not there? All that I can think of is that while ISO 9001 is focused on the Customer, ISO 9004 focuses on all Stakeholders (i.e., Customer, Employee, Community, Shareholder and Supplier).

I guess what keeps ISO 9004 from achieving a Best Practice label is that it doesn't really take into account risk management. It describes what you should do, what you should take into consideration, what options there are for you to implement...but doesn't really say what is needed to become a top notch organization...or how to measure the effectiveness of implementing the options laid out in the guidelines.