IATF Questions regarding suppliers and their certifications

[QuabityControl]

Hello all,

Some background info. I work in an OEM manufacturing facility we are ISO 9001 certified and have recently grown quickly which requires some operation out of multiple buildings (2 are original and are only maybe 30 feet apart and we have 2 down the street which are mostly warehouse but do some manufacturing and 2 more that are just storage this is due to location and finding a larger facility to move everything into) and we have a handful of installation sites that are also included in our ISO scope and certification. We have a customer that is around 20% of the business and they are owned by one of the Big Boys so they are requiring us to be IATF certified (among other things) and as a quality engineer I have been looking at IATF and implementation cost and recurring cost clause by clause.

I am inquiring about the flow down requirements (Clause 8.4.2.3) I understand that you are supposed to get your suppliers to be ISO 9001 and the ultimate goal to become IATF certified. This just seems impossible in my mind with the amount of suppliers we have, it seems like it is setting a business up for logistical failure when you are limiting your suppliers to IATF only. The clause has a step by step process but no real time required. For info we have a handful of suppliers that would be tricky to get to compliance and certification (estimated 500k+ cost to change these suppliers or help get registered)

1. Is there a time frame for this or is it up to your auditor?
2. If say we are trying to get a supplier certified to IATF and they are not interested is this a process that can be dragged out for years with very slow progress implementation?
3. Is there any companies out there who are long term IATF certified and all suppliers have been converted to IATF?
4. Is there a way we could use one of our buildings split from the company by either having a separate division or company and be IATF (and ISO) while the rest of the company continues ISO without the requirements for IATF? I feel like this is the only option to maintain the customer and limit the rest of the company to be bogged down in IATF implementation (not only the supplier flow down but the many other hefty clauses) but I don't know the logistics or legality but I feel this option to be temporary workaround.

Thank you in advance for taking the time to read and help!

 

[Golfman25]

That "requirement" is a goal, not a mandate. If you have not yet, take a look at the sanctioned interpretation. It clarifies it. You basically need a risk based plan to move your suppliers there. To me, at our level, it's a complete slow walk -- i.e.; it isn't happening. Good luck.

 

[QuabityControl]

That "requirement" is a goal, not a mandate. If you have not yet, take a look at the sanctioned interpretation. It clarifies it. You basically need a risk based plan to move your suppliers there. To me, at our level, it's a complete slow walk -- i.e.; it isn't happening. Good luck.

I appreciate your input, I was unsure what exactly sanctioned interpretations were. So technically if we had a supplier who supplied fabricated sheet metal those would be lower risk for failure than say a supplier who manufactures relay boards?

So by this "SI" we could have the customer who is the driver to our IATF move be the one to approves suppliers who we deem a low risk which could just be compliance to ISO?

 

[John C. Abnet]

Hello all,

Some background info. I work in an OEM manufacturing facility we are ISO 9001 certified and have recently grown quickly which requires some operation out of multiple buildings (2 are original and are only maybe 30 feet apart and we have 2 down the street which are mostly warehouse but do some manufacturing and 2 more that are just storage this is due to location and finding a larger facility to move everything into) and we have a handful of installation sites that are also included in our ISO scope and certification. We have a customer that is around 20% of the business and they are owned by one of the Big Boys so they are requiring us to be IATF certified (among other things) and as a quality engineer I have been looking at IATF and implementation cost and recurring cost clause by clause.

I am inquiring about the flow down requirements (Clause 8.4.2.3) I understand that you are supposed to get your suppliers to be ISO 9001 and the ultimate goal to become IATF certified. This just seems impossible in my mind with the amount of suppliers we have, it seems like it is setting a business up for logistical failure when you are limiting your suppliers to IATF only. The clause has a step by step process but no real time required. For info we have a handful of suppliers that would be tricky to get to compliance and certification (estimated 500k+ cost to change these suppliers or help get registered)

1. Is there a time frame for this or is it up to your auditor?
2. If say we are trying to get a supplier certified to IATF and they are not interested is this a process that can be dragged out for years with very slow progress implementation?
3. Is there any companies out there who are long term IATF certified and all suppliers have been converted to IATF?
4. Is there a way we could use one of our buildings split from the company by either having a separate division or company and be IATF (and ISO) while the rest of the company continues ISO without the requirements for IATF? I feel like this is the only option to maintain the customer and limit the rest of the company to be bogged down in IATF implementation (not only the supplier flow down but the many other hefty clauses) but I don't know the logistics or legality but I feel this option to be temporary workaround.

Thank you in advance for taking the time to read and help!

What @Golfman25 said.
In addition...
1- No
2- Yep. Your organization's "plan" is not prescribed by IATF
3- Probably, but that does not directly impact your organization's plan.
4-
a) Once your certified organization is certified to IATF 16949, all relevant automotive manufacturing (even if to a NON-iatf member such as Honda), is subject to IATF audit and requirements.
b) It would need to be manufacturing non-automotive products....not required to be IATF.
c) The scenario you describe (your organization's current situation), is a "Single Manufacturing Site w/ Extended Sites (often referred to as an "extended workbench")

Hope this helps.
Be well.

 

[Golfman25]

I appreciate your input, I was unsure what exactly sanctioned interpretations were. So technically if we had a supplier who supplied fabricated sheet metal those would be lower risk for failure than say a supplier who manufactures relay boards?

So by this "SI" we could have the customer who is the driver to our IATF move be the one to approves suppliers who we deem a low risk which could just be compliance to ISO?

As I read it, the min required, without customer approval, is ISO 9001 certification. These days, should be pretty much everyone, except for the small ma and pa type shop still hanging on. For the non ISO shops, we needed to get customer approval -- usually done for legacy things, etc.

If you have a few of those non-ISO supplier, you just have to justify to your customer the need for their approval. A lot will depend on them.

 

[QuabityControl]

What @Golfman25 said.
In addition...
1- No
2- Yep. Your organization's "plan" is not prescribed by IATF
3- Probably, but that does not directly impact your organization's plan.
4-
a) Once your certified organization is certified to IATF 16949, all relevant automotive manufacturing (even if to a NON-iatf member such as Honda), is subject to IATF audit and requirements.
b) It would need to be manufacturing non-automotive products....not required to be IATF.
c) The scenario you describe (your organization's current situation), is a "Single Manufacturing Site w/ Extended Sites (often referred to as an "extended workbench")

Hope this helps.
Be well.

Thank you for the information!

 

[QuabityControl]

As I read it, the min required, without customer approval, is ISO 9001 certification. These days, should be pretty much everyone, except for the small ma and pa type shop still hanging on. For the non ISO shops, we needed to get customer approval -- usually done for legacy things, etc.

If you have a few of those non-ISO supplier, you just have to justify to your customer the need for their approval. A lot will depend on them.

That makes sense, we have a few very mom and pop shops that would be difficult but this does help clarify.
Thanks

 

[qusys]

Hello all,

Some background info. I work in an OEM manufacturing facility we are ISO 9001 certified and have recently grown quickly which requires some operation out of multiple buildings (2 are original and are only maybe 30 feet apart and we have 2 down the street which are mostly warehouse but do some manufacturing and 2 more that are just storage this is due to location and finding a larger facility to move everything into) and we have a handful of installation sites that are also included in our ISO scope and certification. We have a customer that is around 20% of the business and they are owned by one of the Big Boys so they are requiring us to be IATF certified (among other things) and as a quality engineer I have been looking at IATF and implementation cost and recurring cost clause by clause.

I am inquiring about the flow down requirements (Clause 8.4.2.3) I understand that you are supposed to get your suppliers to be ISO 9001 and the ultimate goal to become IATF certified. This just seems impossible in my mind with the amount of suppliers we have, it seems like it is setting a business up for logistical failure when you are limiting your suppliers to IATF only. The clause has a step by step process but no real time required. For info we have a handful of suppliers that would be tricky to get to compliance and certification (estimated 500k+ cost to change these suppliers or help get registered)

1. Is there a time frame for this or is it up to your auditor?
2. If say we are trying to get a supplier certified to IATF and they are not interested is this a process that can be dragged out for years with very slow progress implementation?
3. Is there any companies out there who are long term IATF certified and all suppliers have been converted to IATF?
4. Is there a way we could use one of our buildings split from the company by either having a separate division or company and be IATF (and ISO) while the rest of the company continues ISO without the requirements for IATF? I feel like this is the only option to maintain the customer and limit the rest of the company to be bogged down in IATF implementation (not only the supplier flow down but the many other hefty clauses) but I don't know the logistics or legality but I feel this option to be temporary workaround.

Thank you in advance for taking the time to read and help!

You could be audited by your customer and show that you are conforming to Minimum Automotive quality mgmt ssystem requirements . see the related document in iatf global site

 

[Johnnymo62]

Take a look at these for free at IATF.

https://www.iatfglobaloversight.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/IATF-Rules-5th-Edition-Sanctioned-Interpretations-Nov-2023.pdf

https://www.iatfglobaloversight.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Minimum-Automotive-Quality-Management-System-Requirements-for-Sub-tier-suppliers-2nd-Ed.pdf