As hybrid cars gobble rare metals, shortage looms

[somerqc]

This price difference is the reason many governments are offering "rebates". In Ontario, you will receive $4000 from the government if you purchase a hybrid (there was a time a pure hybrid got even a bigger rebate).

At least here, your paybck is MUCH quicker. Besides, even 22,000 miles is only 2-3 years of driving the car (assuming you are close to a "congested" city). With the rebate, you break even in the 1st year.

I am currently looking at the purchase of a new car and I am NOT looking at hybrids as I have a family to drive around and they just don't have the power in the cars that I like (don't like the drive of the Camry - too soft). But, I am looking at getting the most fuel efficient car that meets my needs. Plus, I do a great deal of highway driving that nullifies much of the benefits of the hybrids at this time.

For me, the math just doesn't add up to get a hybrid.

 

[Jim Wynne]

I would sure like to see similar studies on the resources used to make Lithium ion batteries. What new materials are tapped to make these batteries, where are they coming from, and what impact is there on their consumption? Will they also be recycled? Is this another impending dirty little secret?

It's a good question. As I understand it, there just isn't enough available lithium to sustain significant production of large batteries, and what is available is mostly in Russia. I think this is a time when the both the government and the global automotive industry need to learn from mistakes of the past and not try to force a short-term strategy when it's clear that the technologies needed to sustain long-term solutions just don't exist at the moment.

 

[True Position]

This price difference is the reason many governments are offering "rebates". In Ontario, you will receive $4000 from the government if you purchase a hybrid (there was a time a pure hybrid got even a bigger rebate).

Would you support the same subsidies for a diesel Jetta? What about when these rebates go away? Are hybrids suddenly uneconomical as soon as the government stops paying 15%? (They were limited to a certain number of vehicles in the US.)

At least here, your paybck is MUCH quicker. Besides, even 22,000 miles is only 2-3 years of driving the car (assuming you are close to a "congested" city). With the rebate, you break even in the 1st year.

Note how you only save fuel at city driving. 22,000 miles is a lot of city driving. At 30 mph that is 733 hours of city driving, or an hour of pure city driving every day of the year for 2 years. That seems unlikely to me, but I'm sure there are people who it fits for. I just don't think the majority of hybrid drivers are people who spend an hour every single day driving around at low speed.

I am currently looking at the purchase of a new car and I am NOT looking at hybrids as I have a family to drive around and they just don't have the power in the cars that I like (don't like the drive of the Camry - too soft). But, I am looking at getting the most fuel efficient car that meets my needs. Plus, I do a great deal of highway driving that nullifies much of the benefits of the hybrids at this time.

For me, the math just doesn't add up to get a hybrid.

If GM / Toyota / etc offered a 'Hybrid Appearance Package', basically just hybrid badges factory installed as $50 option, how well do you think it would sell? I suspect quite well. For the majority of hybrid owners I've talked to, (this is only my personal experience and may be wrong) the payoff time seems to be at about 4-5 years in. Outside of the government subsidies, they seem to be a luxury for people who want to appear green. Yes, they do some good and are 'better' then the non-hybrid options, but I do not personally think the increased cost and complexity is worth the cost. Now, if you believe that the reduced pollution due to getting higher mpg and driving the same amount has a personal value beyond the $$ cost savings in fuel usage, maybe a hybrid makes more sense for you. That's a value that will differ to each person.

 

[bobdoering]

If GM / Toyota / etc offered a 'Hybrid Appearance Package', basically just hybrid badges factory installed as $50 option, how well do you think it would sell?

I'd rather pay for "SS" badges, myself.

 

[True Position]

I'd rather pay for "SS" badges, myself.

It all depends on the type of woman you are looking to attract.

 

[bobdoering]

It all depends on the type of woman you are looking to attract.

You are exactly right! One that doesn't count the number of toilet paper sheets you are allowed to use!

 

[Jim Wynne]

I'd rather pay for "SS" badges, myself.

 

[Bev D]

hmmm...a meandering thread.
how about this: "it's just a fad" said the horse to the buggy when the smoke belching open body thin tired horseless carriage drove by...

I'm sure that whatever we end up with will resemble teh prius as much as the modern automobile resembles those first 'horseless carriages'.

 

[bobdoering]

hmmm...a meandering thread.
how about this: "it's just a fad" said the horse to the buggy when the smoke belching open body thin tired horseless carriage drove by...

...as we head back to horse and buggy? Styles always come back in fashion.

 

[Craig H.]

I'd rather pay for "SS" badges, myself.

Personally I like "sleepers" myself. I wonder if a big block 440 will fit under a Prius hybrid hood...

(for the non-car nuts, a "sleeper" is a car that looks and sounds fairly normal, with unexpected high performance).