Company will not register to ISO 9001 but wants TS 16949 for one product!

[Ken11]

Hello All

This is my first posting here and it may be my last hope for information!

After almost 20 years in quality management I escaped for about 7 years. Now I'm back and playing catch up.
My new position is with a small family owned company that has been around almost 50 years. Top management is all family. They have decided not to register to ISO because of the amount of work / change from the way they have always done lots of things. Engineering, documentation, and planning to name a few.

We have one automotive product that runs on one machine, a sales rep has told one member of top management that we could get TS 16949 certification for just that one product. Top management now thinks this would be the easiest path to take with the least amount of work, change and disruption to the way things are done now. HELP! Can this even be done?

I need all the help I can get from the good folks out here.

 

[D.Scott]

Welcome to the posting side of the Cove.

Yes, it can be done. TS16949 is ONLY for automotive so the rest of your processes wouldn't be covered under it anyway. TS16949 is based on ISO 9001 which is what you would certify the rest of your processes to if you so desired. The problem you will have is setting up a quality system when your employers don't want to change. A major starting block for 16949, or any other quality system, is management commitment.

Dave

 

[Al Rosen]

Dave is spot on. You need management support and ISO 9001 to start. If management won't listen, then find an "expert". They always seem to listen to them no matter how right or how much a person within the organization knows. Save them some money by showing them this thread, because you won't find a more knowledgeable group then in these forums.

 

[Howard Atkins]

Welcome to the posting side of the Cove.

Yes, it can be done. TS16949 is ONLY for automotive so the rest of your processes wouldn't be covered under it anyway. TS16949 is based on ISO 9001 which is what you would certify the rest of your processes to if you so desired. The problem you will have is setting up a quality system when your employers don't want to change. A major starting block for 16949, or any other quality system, is management commitment.

Dave

To be clearer the rest of your manufacturing processes will not be covered.
You must have management and support processes in place as the certificate is for the system

 

[Ken11]

Thanks very much to everyone for the quick replies.

It seems that I have a “different path” to start down here. My initial thoughts are that many of the requirements for certification will be more difficult to meet and prove. The one process has been running for several years and not much historical information has been documented. The required predictive, continuous improvement and product realization type items look a little daunting.

If anyone has any more thoughts or ideas I would be glad to here them.

Thanks again.

 

[JRKH]

Hello All

This is my first posting here and it may be my last hope for information!

After almost 20 years in quality management I escaped for about 7 years. Now I'm back and playing catch up.
My new position is with a small family owned company that has been around almost 50 years. Top management is all family. They have decided not to register to ISO because of the amount of work / change from the way they have always done lots of things. Engineering, documentation, and planning to name a few.

We have one automotive product that runs on one machine, a sales rep has told one member of top management that we could get TS 16949 certification for just that one product. Top management now thinks this would be the easiest path to take with the least amount of work, change and disruption to the way things are done now. HELP! Can this even be done?

I need all the help I can get from the good folks out here.

Questions:
How big is the company?

Is there a quality system in place now?
If so what are the problems that management sees in getting 9001 certified?

What is would the cost be to get certified for one product as opposed to the whole sheebang?

If the process has been running for several years, why the sudden interest/need to get registered?

I'm thinking you might be able to supply the required forms and data without getting formally certified.

James

 

[db]

First of all, a delayed Welcome to the Cove!

Although TS would only apply to your automotive processes, most of your support processes will be covered as well. If you really analyze it, I think you will find that the incremental cost/headache of having an enterprise-wide Quality Management System (QMS) will be less than the cost/headache of trying to operate two separate systems (one for automotive, one with nothing). Your nothing side will constantly be causing trouble for your QMS. I can tell you right now, it is not worth the hassle! Do yourself a big favor. Have your QMS cover everything.

 

[Ken11]

James & Dave
We have about 70 employees. A quality system has been created based on the old ISO requirements with most of it in place covering the basics. Several items still need lots of work or implementation such as internal audits, preventive / predictive actions, none of the normal costs (scrap, downtime, setup etc.) tracked, no plan or documentation of / for continuous improvement. Employee training and corrective action will need lots of improvement & documentation. Lots of the new requirements still need to be addressed. However, product quality here is great, good control on the floor, experienced operators and very few (almost zero) customer complaints or rejections. We seem to have a high level of customer satisfaction.

It seems there are lots of fears, fear of change, additional (non-value added) work, negative effects on employees from installing procedures and audit results, all the documentation required and possible major impact(s) on our two person engineering department, just to name a few. Basically the big question, is any type of ISO compliance worth the cost & effort? Now, add in one good tier 2 automotive account to the mix.

Dave, I know from my past you are dead right!!!

 

[db]

Dave, I know from my past you are dead right!!!

You're willing to admit that I'm right in public?

My personal opinion is that a good QMS is well worth the effort. Even if you do not get registered, it is still a good thing. Through the discipline of a good QMS, you can find things that help you improve.