Continual Improvement as Result of Corrective Action?

[Mike S.]

Philosophically maintaining a system can be considered continual improvement due to the second law of thermodynamics and entropy.

ill see my way out, thank you.

 

[tlarosa]

Here is the original post:



The note you referred to says, in full: NOTE: Examples of improvement can include correction, corrective action, continual improvement, breakthrough change, innovation, and re-organization.

First, the note doesn't say "continual improvement includes corrective action" as you stated, it says "improvement can include...corrective action...."

Why? Because the committee decided so. It seems within reason to me. There are lots of things in ISO 9001 I don't like or necessarily agree with, but I have to live with it. This particular issues seems to be a very minor one that, to me, falls into the "so what?" category.

Continual improvement is improvement on a recurring basis, so corrective action applies to continual improvement as well.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Continual improvement is improvement on a recurring basis, so corrective action applies to continual improvement as well.

Please explain this.

 

[Big Jim]

I'm amazed at how soon we forget what was clearly stated in ISO 9001:2008 element 8.5.1.

"The organization shall continually improve the effectiveness of the quality management system through the use
of the quality policy, quality objectives, audit results, analysis of data, corrective and preventive actions and
management review."

Trying to go deeper than this is just speculation and personal opinion. Keep it simple.

 

[normhowe]

When you correct an error in a process, you have hopefully learned something new about your process. Then you used that new-found knowledge to review the whole process for similar situations that have not yet caused problems. You then proactively correct those situations BEFORE they cause defects, thus improving your process.

 

[tlarosa]

Please explain this.

Since improvement includes corrective action and since continual improvement is improvement on a recurring basis, then it stands to reason that continual improvement also includes corrective action.

 

[tlarosa]

When you correct an error in a process, you have hopefully learned something new about your process. Then you used that new-found knowledge to review the whole process for similar situations that have not yet caused problems. You then proactively correct those situations BEFORE they cause defects, thus improving your process.

I think this is more accurately termed "corrective action impact".

 

[Mike S.]

I think I'm with Ed.....I'll see my way out now.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Since improvement includes corrective action and since continual improvement is improvement on a recurring basis, then it stands to reason that continual improvement also includes corrective action.

Look--it's pretty simple. If I have a process that that has been found lacking in some way (including producing NC product), and I find the root of the problem and correct it, I have improved that process. Any other interpretation of "improvement" is self-serving and wrong, frankly. This is not a matter of opinion.

 

[Enghabashy]

I beg to differ. Perhaps there's confusion with the idiotic ISO idea that actions taken as a result of corrective action to prevent the NC from recurring can't be classified as preventive actions. Thus things that are clearly preventive aren't preventive.
I don't know where the idea that "... continual improvement refer to making something good even better" came from. There is danger in tampering with "good" processes, where "good" might be defined as running in an optimal state.
It seems clear to me that when looking for improvement opportunities, it would be foolhardy to disregard historical corrective actions. Taking something "bad" and making it better is the essence of improvement.

I see that the new version of ISO 9001:2015 ignored our manufacturing culture for prevention , maybe Risk management covering the prevention in management & business ; but the preventive action is still maintained in our manufacturing culture , IATF 16949 is clearly maintain the requirement , the new version of ISO 9001” maybe 2024 “ should keeping the preventive action as result of : risk determination & assessment , the corrective actions taken should be analysed to determine the the need for taking preventive action in another location / field , the application of error proof system as one of preventive action concept , ---etc.,

• Therefore I see the requirement of IATF-Clause 6.1.2.2 as below could be adopted in new ISO 9001 : 2024 , which could be :

6.1.2.2 Preventive action

The organization shall determine and implement action(s) to eliminate the causes of potential nonconformities in order to prevent their occurrence. Preventive actions shall be appropriate to the severity of the potential issues.

The organization shall establish a process to lessen the impact of negative effects of risk including the following:

a) determining potential nonconformities and their causes;

b) evaluating the need for action to prevent occurrence of nonconformities;

c) determining and implementing action needed;

d) documented information of action taken;

e) reviewing the effectiveness of the preventive action taken;

f) utilizing lessons learned to prevent recurrence in similar processes (see ISO 9001, Section 7.1.6).