Interviewing an External Auditor? Choose a Registrar for ISO 9001 Registration

[zekeQA]

Re: Interviewing an External Auditor?

sorin,

You and I agree. That is exactly how I would have answered those questions. I wish someone like minded was an auditor for an CB. Here are the answers from an auditor I just talked with:

1) Start with the standard and how we address the topics in the standards through processes and work instructions.

He also said that he looked at performance measurements? He wanted to know that the system was helping the company to improve.

2) Scope, exclusions and justification, references to the "required procedures".

3) Prefers to see diversion or customization of the standard.

4) Would like to see at least three pages. Wants to see mission statement or direction in manual.

5) 6 procedures need to be addressed. Can be combined in procedures.

6) "work instructions" are not required.

7) No issue

8) Will never issue finding with out lack of evidence.

9) If you are meeting the requirements: documents available for use, integrity of documents

10) evidence of root cause analysis, evidence of correction in place that works, or re-evaluation

This auditor admitted to having bias and said that he tried to be objective during the audits, but could not keep it out of his answers. I intentionally ask open and closed end questions. This gentleman answered the closed ended questions like they were open ended... And showed that he was really biased.

He seemed like a nice guy... He was knowledgeable about this stuff, but how objective would he really be?

 

[Sorin]

Re: Interviewing an External Auditor?

zeke,

Unfortunately is very hard to find a really objective auditor because they are bound and trained in regards of the standards that they are auditing to. And they are humans. Minimal effort is the way of action for most (no offense intended, just an observation from the multiple contacts I had with auditors).

However, as long as your system is compliant with every shall and letter of the standard, there should be no fear of the auditor.

If you are an honest person (as I suspect), you will not abuse the auditor and you will stand by your system and the standard.

Do not forget that you (as a company) are responsible for your product in face of your customer. In the same line of thought, you are a customer for the CB.

 

[tsmith7858]

Re: Interviewing an External Auditor?

I went through the same thing a year and a half ago. I agree with those that say you need to interview the CB, not the auditor at least to start.

Make sure the CB itself does not have any quirks. Get samples of their audit reports if you can to see how they look and find out how they handle findings. Find out if they use exclusive auditors or if they contract auditors. Once you start to narrow things down you can ask for information on auditors they might use for your job.

I asked a lot of the same questions being suggested and sent out a request for information stating my scope and business information, including expected time frames (in order to give the CBs a fair shot) and asked that the CB complete a questionnaire. Some weren't willing to play my game and they dropped out right away and some just wanted to send me their typical sales propaganda.

I actually left cost out of it at first because I don't like being blinded by numbers early on in the process (personal preference). In the end, I did not choose the least expensive CB but the one that met my needs (Not always easy to explain to the boss if there is a large difference in costs).

I don't know if it worked or I just got lucky but the CB and auditors used so far have been a pleasure. We have a surveillance audit next week and are adding a second facility to the scope.

Stick to your guns and good luck in finding the right fit!

 

[selena15]

Re: Interviewing an External Auditor?

Hi all
very interesting thread and thank to all of you for it

i wanna just add one point, if it is need.
one auditor had adviced me one time to be aware about the CBs which is largely known; they can, once the contract signed with their customer, they send you just any one of their subordinate auditors or even outsourced to another ones.
hope this helps
selena

 

[harry]

Re: Interviewing an External Auditor?

An alternative (and perhaps better) method is to ask them who are their clients around your area and then get their permission to talk/check with these people. You should get 'un-massaged' answers for your questions.

 

[Marc]

Re: interviewing an external auditor?

<snip>... You should not assume you will get the same auditor over and over.... <snip>

Good point, Bill. Just my You are right *and* I personally do not think having the same auditor is a good thing. I used to think it was a very good thing. I do not any more.

I used to do a lot of internal audits for some small companies in my area. After about 5 or 6 years I realized that I knew the people and their businesses so well I started falling into the trap of not really looking and asking what I should. Let's just say it was an epiphany moment. I wasn't adding value. I contacted each client and explained my feelings and that I could no longer do internal audits for them. Most were not happy with my decision, but I honestly believe that having auditors who are not familiar with a company diminishes conflict of interest and is more value added.

 

[AndyN]

Re: interviewing an external auditor?

One thing you should be aware of is that you're not interviewing auditors, per se. You're interviewing CB sales people. As with other all other sales people, their job is to get the business, and the depth of their knowledge and experience with actual auditing may be variable. With that in mind, a question to ask might be "What can your company do for me that [Brand X] can't do?"

As with all other sales transactions of this sort, you should remember that whatever a salesperson might claim, it's worthless if it's not in the contract.

While you're accurate with your comments, Jim, I'd like to add that what you say may be true for a majority, but with my company we always offer that the (prospective) client can speak directly to a (typical) auditor that might be assigned to their audit - because most often, they're based locally to that client. Of course, many clients already know who the auditors are - good ones have a reputation! As a member of the sales staff I'm there to ensure that the client has as much information as helps them make their considered decision. But then, I'm not your average CB sales guy.....

 

[AndyN]

Re: Interviewing an External Auditor?

An alternative (and perhaps better) method is to ask them who are their clients around your area and then get their permission to talk/check with these people. You should get 'un-massaged' answers for your questions.

Harry - excellent point! Thanks!

 

[Marc]

Re: Interviewing an External Auditor?

<snip>... I agree with those that say you need to interview the CB, not the auditor at least to start.... <snip>

That is true and I agree. However, I have asked for resumes of the auditors who might be auditing the company up front to get an idea of what the certification body's standards are.

 

[Randy]

If the knucklehead says he is biased he has lost objectivity and has disqualified himself at the git-go and you might as well just give him a check right now, have him stay at home and just make up something that reads nice.

This is wrong at so many levels it's hard to decide where to start. Why not just have him create your management system in his image and then just let him audit his own work and be done with it because that is exactly what he is telling you?

This is messed up! The next thing you know he'll try pawning off his latest batch of Snake-Oil on you.