I have an AAS degree (2 year) and am a Quality Manager for a machine shop (what the AAS is actually in). I agree that a degree is not necessary. For the job openings I see (not looking but I still get e-mails) they require a BS or X years in the trade. I also find X years is fairly open to interpretation.
Quality Career Without a Degree
- Thread starter Kurt Smith
- Start date
More than your degree, have a story to tell the interviewer. People love stories. A time you were down for the count at work. You struggled but motivated others for some goal. All hands on deck type story.
They arent hiring you for the typical day. They want to see you react under fire. An auditor beating you up. Other managers pushing back...thing like that.
Stories demonstrate a few things;
You reflected on an event and are a thinker
You recall the key details
You can communicate the details in a way to keep others engaged
They think you can be persuasive in front of their customers.
They arent hiring you for the typical day. They want to see you react under fire. An auditor beating you up. Other managers pushing back...thing like that.
Stories demonstrate a few things;
You reflected on an event and are a thinker
You recall the key details
You can communicate the details in a way to keep others engaged
They think you can be persuasive in front of their customers.
Last edited:
Randy
Super Moderator
Yep, all those AS9100 auditors have years and years of experience and have never driven a rivet, cut metal or gotten drenched in hydraulic fluid, but they know aircraft manufacturing "quality".
Also that you had incredible fun getting from point A (where we all start) to point B (where we are now).
indubioush
Ah ha!
Just want to add that it also depends on where you live and the career culture. If most people around you have a degree and you don't, this is much worst than a situation where many people also don't have a degree.
Hi Kurt,
Lots of good advice above. The only other recommendation I have is network, network, network. Go to conferences meet other individuals in quality and talk to them. Expand your Linkedin contacts. Also, I know you said college is not an option, but consider taking one class a semester. In an interview, after dazzling a company with your experience mention you are working on obtaining a college degree.
All the best,
Quinn
Lots of good advice above. The only other recommendation I have is network, network, network. Go to conferences meet other individuals in quality and talk to them. Expand your Linkedin contacts. Also, I know you said college is not an option, but consider taking one class a semester. In an interview, after dazzling a company with your experience mention you are working on obtaining a college degree.
All the best,
Quinn
Great advice. Most jobs are landed through contacts inside the target company. That gets you past the computer scanning your resume, and the HR gatekeepers. Having someone willing to vouch for you despite the lack of degree goes a very long way.
At my work it was pointed out that people learn through three methods one is education such at schools, colleges or university courses but there's on the job or experiential learning and a third. The proportion of which actually works out that education courses is the one learning method you use or benefit the least from. This is a very inaccurate summary but the biggest point is that you actually develop more by doing it than by sitting through organised courses like a university degree course.
In my case I have two degrees at two different UK Russell group institutions. The masters was from a university who's department I studied in scored higher than the equivalent in Cambridge in the research ratings. Cambridge University is possibly considered to have the best materials science and engineering department in the UK and is comparable with the best around the world, but mine scored higher for research quality.
Has that worked out for me? I don't think I use any of the technical side of university only perhaps the soft skills I learnt. I think I learnt more soft skills outside of university education though. I have no doubt in a tickbox recruitment system these two degrees have helped me but in the job I believe firmly that I benefited more from being in the workplace and doing a job in the quality field. With more and more big companies looking beyond tickbox screening I believe a degree will be left to smaller companies and the less enlightened companies. I think we're probably in transition so it is still a advantage right now.
BTW my employer is recruiting into quality. Many put degree as desirable only and some jobs say degree, HND or equivalent is desirable. I went for one with degree but I got taken on at a lower grade with a view to be developed up to the grade for the job. I didn't have the experience apparently. However, if my first reporting to the higher ups is anything to go by it seems I'm doing a more thorough job than those at the next grade with years of experience. So I seriously question the experience POV.
In my case I suspect my natural tendency to underplay my knowledge and experience (in quality that's about 95% on the job doing it training) caused that lower grade start. At least I got the job, joined late last year. So my opinion is get your experience through the job and doing it, with specific quality related training courses for targeted certification. I need those certificates myself to counter my natural tendency to undersell myself.
The one advantage my two engineering degrees give me is an ability to understand or appreciate technical and complex matters. My colleagues seem to be non technical backgrounds and they kind of play that up as being good not understanding the technical! They're mostly teachers, nurses, public sector HR or straight out of school into admin apprenticeship before progressing to quality through company development programmes. They're all doing well even if the more technical or engineering related tasks get given to those from an engineering background (degree or HND). I think the OPs work experience would put him in the technical camp if he was in my company, suspect he'd do well even without a degree.
In my case I have two degrees at two different UK Russell group institutions. The masters was from a university who's department I studied in scored higher than the equivalent in Cambridge in the research ratings. Cambridge University is possibly considered to have the best materials science and engineering department in the UK and is comparable with the best around the world, but mine scored higher for research quality.
Has that worked out for me? I don't think I use any of the technical side of university only perhaps the soft skills I learnt. I think I learnt more soft skills outside of university education though. I have no doubt in a tickbox recruitment system these two degrees have helped me but in the job I believe firmly that I benefited more from being in the workplace and doing a job in the quality field. With more and more big companies looking beyond tickbox screening I believe a degree will be left to smaller companies and the less enlightened companies. I think we're probably in transition so it is still a advantage right now.
BTW my employer is recruiting into quality. Many put degree as desirable only and some jobs say degree, HND or equivalent is desirable. I went for one with degree but I got taken on at a lower grade with a view to be developed up to the grade for the job. I didn't have the experience apparently. However, if my first reporting to the higher ups is anything to go by it seems I'm doing a more thorough job than those at the next grade with years of experience. So I seriously question the experience POV.
In my case I suspect my natural tendency to underplay my knowledge and experience (in quality that's about 95% on the job doing it training) caused that lower grade start. At least I got the job, joined late last year. So my opinion is get your experience through the job and doing it, with specific quality related training courses for targeted certification. I need those certificates myself to counter my natural tendency to undersell myself.
The one advantage my two engineering degrees give me is an ability to understand or appreciate technical and complex matters. My colleagues seem to be non technical backgrounds and they kind of play that up as being good not understanding the technical! They're mostly teachers, nurses, public sector HR or straight out of school into admin apprenticeship before progressing to quality through company development programmes. They're all doing well even if the more technical or engineering related tasks get given to those from an engineering background (degree or HND). I think the OPs work experience would put him in the technical camp if he was in my company, suspect he'd do well even without a degree.
I was reading through previous comments and to add to Ed Panek's comments about having a tale to tell would say that it's possibly what got me my big company / proper quality job the end of last year. In the interview I had a few examples noted down and basically I recounted these as they seemed appropriate.
I didn't think of them as tales. Basically I saw them as my best example of me doing the job I was applying for but in my job at that time in a small company. I had read carefully a lot of information I got about the job, company, company culture and even read their company advice for interviewees pdf I had. I tried to apply the STAR format for my tales or examples. Situation, task, action and result.
However I reacted mid interview to some vibes and hints I think one interviewer was giving out. I changed my responses more to being about people.
I think that ties in with EP's tales more. In quality I think it's a big part of your job to actually deal with people often all sorts of people too. Can you handle a situation where a fabricator just wants to deck you, or the senior manager just putting up road blocks. I've seen highly skilled auditors being shot down and unable to go anywhere but back down with just the word "no!". Repeated after every attempt the auditor made to explain his findings. That was one reason I moved on from that company.
In my company now there's some competent auditors without degrees but they have strong people skills. They can relate to people and get good outcomes from them. Technical side they're weak and you'll never get them to understand an engineering wiring drawing but they understand words and people so they do well. Perhaps a degree will give you the technical side of quality but you need to look elsewhere for the other potentially more important aspects, the soft skills, people skills, communication skills.
I didn't think of them as tales. Basically I saw them as my best example of me doing the job I was applying for but in my job at that time in a small company. I had read carefully a lot of information I got about the job, company, company culture and even read their company advice for interviewees pdf I had. I tried to apply the STAR format for my tales or examples. Situation, task, action and result.
However I reacted mid interview to some vibes and hints I think one interviewer was giving out. I changed my responses more to being about people.
I think that ties in with EP's tales more. In quality I think it's a big part of your job to actually deal with people often all sorts of people too. Can you handle a situation where a fabricator just wants to deck you, or the senior manager just putting up road blocks. I've seen highly skilled auditors being shot down and unable to go anywhere but back down with just the word "no!". Repeated after every attempt the auditor made to explain his findings. That was one reason I moved on from that company.
In my company now there's some competent auditors without degrees but they have strong people skills. They can relate to people and get good outcomes from them. Technical side they're weak and you'll never get them to understand an engineering wiring drawing but they understand words and people so they do well. Perhaps a degree will give you the technical side of quality but you need to look elsewhere for the other potentially more important aspects, the soft skills, people skills, communication skills.
Randy
Super Moderator
It's being able to develop all that's the trick.
Nice post Randy, yep you ain't much til you have correctly bucked rivets, or serviced an aircraft power-plant! Hands on is equally import and in many cases trumps formal education.
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