Technique cards under Document Control?

Randy

Super Moderator
They are in large binders which no one looks at.
You may very well be placing material on the floor that isn't really relevant to them (most QMS documents aren't and people couldn't care less), and your people may very well be at the point that they don't need stuff to read because they know their jobs. (called competent)
 

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Leader
Super Moderator
So just use ‘technique cards’ (no more than 1 page, lots of pictures hung in front of their face, laminated if you must) at the appropriate workstations and be done with it. Easy peasy. Literally 10s of thousands have done this. The honkin big binder is Stone Age.
 

QandR

Starting to get Involved
You may very well be placing material on the floor that isn't really relevant to them (most QMS documents aren't and people couldn't care less), and your people may very well be at the point that they don't need stuff to read because they know their jobs. (called competent
So just use ‘technique cards’ (no more than 1 page, lots of pictures hung in front of their face, laminated if you must) at the appropriate workstations and be done with it. Easy peasy. Literally 10s of thousands have done this. The honkin big binder is Stone Age.
Some of our processes are very detailed. Pics are great, however, some of our departments perform various procedures and the work instructions do have photos. Some processes have lengthy, robust work instructions. I can't see 1 Technique card for many of our individual processes and I can't imagine having hundreds of "technique cards" hanging all over the place. Hence the reason I asked for an example of what one looks like.
 

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Leader
Super Moderator
It is difficult to provide you a useful example as every industry is different and many work instructions are covered by IP.
IF you provide some more details about your situation then we might be able to provide more guidance. Technique cards work well when any given workstation has only one (same) operation to perform. If you have ‘work areas’ that process multiple products using different ‘recipes’ then you will need a slightly different approach. For example, one approach is to use a “traveler” that is issued with each lot that details each specific step along the way.

I will also add that I’ve done this with processes that the engineers and scientists always said were too detailed to reduce to one page or less. :horse: A little thought and voila! We reduced the ‘detail’ to the essential steps. Ever been to an automotive assembly factory? There are NO instructions for the operators. But they build multiple types of cars not the same line and no one reads any stinking instructions.

So there are options but you need to (1) be willing to do the work and (2) tell us what your situation is or we can’t help you
 

QandR

Starting to get Involved
Thank you. I failed to mention earlier that we are ISO 13485 certified (medical device). We've been certified less than 3 years so the large binders (and growing) are what we started with. We are looking to improve upon that. We do use Job Travelers but they are not detailed on how to perform, they only describe what to perform within defined parameters as each job can vary. Sounds like the Technique Cards are not a good solution for us. I thank you all for your input.
 

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Leader
Super Moderator
Well that's too bad - I just spent 17 years at a medical device company and we used technique cards plus "recipes" for the more complicated processes. worked perfectly. The idea with 'complex' processes is that the operators know how to do the job, they only need to know the specific settings etc. that are unique to each product...

One of the barriers for organizations like yours is that they get stuck in the mindset that everything must be written down so that someone off the street can do the job; that is simply not true. I might be wrong but you haven't really described what is so complicated about your situation. If you want things to change, you must change things including your mindset. I have never seen a manufacturing operation that couldn't have simplified work instructions...but it's your choice.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Leader
Admin
One of the barriers for organizations like yours is that they get stuck in the mindset that everything must be written down so that someone off the street can do the job; that is simply not true.
What she said.

I will never forget sometime in the late 1990’s when a “brilliant mind” :) discussing on the issue of how much documentation an ISO 9001 system should have, stated: “you need to document your operation to the extent that you could fire your whole workforce one afternoon, hire all new employees overnight and the new workers could do the work next morning, seamlessly”. Stupid is as stupid does.

It was probably the same moron who invented the ISO 9001 is just say what you do, do what you say fallacy.

The problem is some people believe these false prophets.
 

QandR

Starting to get Involved
What she said.

I will never forget sometime in the late 1990’s when a “brilliant mind” :) discussing on the issue of how much documentation an ISO 9001 system should have, stated: “you need to document your operation to the extent that you could fire your whole workforce one afternoon, hire all new employees overnight and the new workers could do the work next morning, seamlessly”. Stupid is as stupid does.

It was probably the same moron who invented the ISO 9001 is just say what you do, do what you say fallacy.

The problem is some people believe these false prophets.
There is a difference between ISO 9001 & ISO 13485. I don't think anyone would want a "moron" making their medical device. :bonk:
 

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Leader
Super Moderator
There is a difference between ISO 9001 & ISO 13485. I don't think anyone would want a "moron" making their medical device. :bonk:
There is a difference but not in any way that could affect your work instructions. I know. I’ve worked in automotive, simple ISO900 organizations, aerospace and medical devices. There is no substantial difference that affects the operator work instructions on the manufacturing floor. And if you are relying on the big honkin binder the person who did it is a moron grumpy “old man” who can’t get past the seventies and the auditor that allowed it is a moron. As you yourself ahve said no one reads those things. They don’t help the operator…

No offense. But I’ll say it again. If you want things to change YOU need to change first. If nothing changes, then nothing changes…
There are none so blind as those who choose to not see
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Leader
Admin
Mental constraints are real. In the business world, most people see maybe a handful of management systems in action during a career. One of the few rewards inherent to the job of a professional management system auditor is to be able to see, literally, hundreds of systems in place. I had a chance to audit many maquiladoras where the overwhelming majority of workers on the assembly lines were illiterate. So, the only effective instructions for them is visual aids. They were handling aerospace parts and attaining FYP of 98%+ consistently. That was back in the late 90’s and early 2000’s. I assessed paperless highly complex production lines in 2004. All instructions available at the desk station computers.

The point is: the format, media, amount and level of detail on information to be made available to the workforce has to be adjusted based on a number of parameters, as Bev listed. Sometimes, less is better. Notwithstanding all of that, any documented information guiding workers to perform quality-impacting jobs has to be controlled.
 
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