Supplier Warranty and Product Responsibility including Failure Analysis

[jkittle]

Warranty and Product Responsibility

I’m just looking for some opinions and other objective views.

I work for an OEM vehicle maker. I recently received a request from our product reliability group to have a supplier do a failure analysis on some failed parts from the field. I had the parts returned from the dealer to the supplier.

Upon the receipt of the parts the supplier sent me an e-mail stating that the parts were three years old and out of the warranty period and that they would not spend the time or money to do any analysis.

I found this to be a very poor attitude/response since we have recently had many of these failures.

Our service group’s view was that the warranty agreement of three years resolved them of any financial responsibility for part replacement and labor but not from product reliability and the parts should not complete failure at that term and that other supplier parts are failing at this rate/term.

I would be interested to here some opinions on this response

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Warranty and Product Responsibility

Warranty and Product Responsibility

I’m just looking for some opinions and other objective views.

I work for an OEM vehicle maker. I recently received a request from our product reliability group to have a supplier do a failure analysis on some failed parts from the field. I had the parts returned from the dealer to the supplier.

Upon the receipt of the parts the supplier sent me an e-mail stating that the parts were three years old and out of the warranty period and that they would not spend the time or money to do any analysis.

I found this to be a very poor attitude/response since we have recently had many of these failures.

Our service group’s view was that the warranty agreement of three years resolved them of any financial responsibility for part replacement and labor but not from product reliability and the parts should not complete failure at that term and that other supplier parts are failing at this rate/term.

I would be interested to here some opinions on this response

I'm of two minds when it comes to things like this. One side of me says that whatever the contract says is what matters. Lord knows, OEMs are quick to wave the documented requirements in suppliers' faces when it suits them to do so (and often in situations where the requirements make no sense), but suddenly suppliers are held to some kind of standard of honorable behavior (or some other similarly nebulous and self-serving concept) when the supplier does the same thing to the OEM.

On the other hand, it's a jungle out there, and suppliers need to understand (especially in automotive work) that there's lots of competition and you need to be prepared to go above and beyond once in a while in order to keep the orders coming.

From your post I get a sense that this might be a supplier that's sick of making costly concessions (perhaps with companies other than yours) and has decided to draw a line in the sand. If your contract with the supplier doesn't address your concerns at this point, the fault lies not with the supplier (who has apparently done what he was contracted to do) but with the contract.

 

[Marc]

Re: Warranty and Product Responsibility including Failure Analysis

Have you started feeding them failure data and/or initiated a Supplier Corrective Action? I'd start an official Request for Corrective Action so it gets in your system. Since you work for an OEM vehicle maker that will probably affect their supplier rating or get it on their scorecard or what ever system you're using.

My personal impression is the supplier isn't interested in further business from your company and I'd let them know that. If you're working for an OEM vehicle maker you do have some weight to throw around.

 

[jkittle]

The parts have failed in the field after warranty and not at zero miles in the plant so we can initiate a corrective action that would show up on the score card.

We have asked for a corrective action from the field failure but they have not been receptive to it. This particular supplier is relatively new and as hard as we can be on suppliers this one has noting to complain about yet.

I understand the supplier’s response to the out of warranty but can understand the unwillingness to take on the failure analysis.

Even as the OEM we have the responsibility to answer back on all of the concerns to our end users. Even though the part is past warranty we feel the life of the part should not be over and have failed at this point in the life cycle. I’m just surprised to get such a poor response and I’m waiting until I can choose my words wisely before I respond.

 

[Stijloor]

The parts have failed in the field after warranty and not at zero miles in the plant so we can initiate a corrective action that would show up on the score card.

We have asked for a corrective action from the field failure but they have not been receptive to it. This particular supplier is relatively new and as hard as we can be on suppliers this one has noting to complain about yet.

I understand the supplier’s response to the out of warranty but can understand the unwillingness to take on the failure analysis.

Even as the OEM we have the responsibility to answer back on all of the concerns to our end users. Even though the part is past warranty we feel the life of the part should not be over and have failed at this point in the life cycle. I’m just surprised to get such a poor response and I’m waiting until I can choose my words wisely before I respond.

Just curious; who is the design-responsible party?

Stijloor.

 

[Jim Wynne]

The parts have failed in the field after warranty and not at zero miles in the plant so we can initiate a corrective action that would show up on the score card.

We have asked for a corrective action from the field failure but they have not been receptive to it. This particular supplier is relatively new and as hard as we can be on suppliers this one has noting to complain about yet.

I understand the supplier’s response to the out of warranty but can understand the unwillingness to take on the failure analysis.

Even as the OEM we have the responsibility to answer back on all of the concerns to our end users. Even though the part is past warranty we feel the life of the part should not be over and have failed at this point in the life cycle. I’m just surprised to get such a poor response and I’m waiting until I can choose my words wisely before I respond.

If you take a reasonable tack with the supplier, telling them that they're not being blamed and won't be held responsible (so long as they've honored contractual requirements) but that you just want some help in understanding what to expect from the product, I think you'll get a response that's more in line with what you're hoping for.

Automotive suppliers have been trained by their customers to be defensive in these situations.

 

[Phil Fields]

The parts have failed in the field after warranty and not at zero miles in the plant so we can initiate a corrective action that would show up on the score card.

We have asked for a corrective action from the field failure but they have not been receptive to it. This particular supplier is relatively new and as hard as we can be on suppliers this one has noting to complain about yet.

I understand the supplier’s response to the out of warranty but can understand the unwillingness to take on the failure analysis.

Even as the OEM we have the responsibility to answer back on all of the concerns to our end users. Even though the part is past warranty we feel the life of the part should not be over and have failed at this point in the life cycle. I’m just surprised to get such a poor response and I’m waiting until I can choose my words wisely before I respond.

Interesting problem with many possible opinions/solutions.

Your one statement I find interesting “we feel the life”. Unfortunately feelings do not matter in issues such as this. Has your company or the supplier statistically determined the reliability/life of this product? Having the facts of what the determined reliability/life are would help in forming your corrective action problem statement either internally or externally.

Phil

 

[jkittle]

We are design responsible. We have asked for a specific analysis that is based on an output of their process.

I'm sure when all said and done they will do it the analysis and our request and correspondence so far has been tactful and not demanding.

Again I think the response and the way it was written was a first for me and I’m just surprised by it.

 

[jkittle]

We have life cycle data that shows the parts should last far beyond the mileage they failed at. We also have the same parts in service from the same supplier in the field that are triple the life.

What I have found out is that are out warranty based on a time period. Unfortunately poor first in first out material control at our assembly plant is killing us.

 

[Stijloor]

We are design responsible. We have asked for a specific analysis that is based on an output of their process.

I'm sure when all said and done they will do it the analysis and our request and correspondence so far has been tactful and not demanding.

Again I think the response and the way it was written was a first for me and I’m just surprised by it.

Jerry,

The reason I asked is that a poor design can never be remedied in the manufacturing process. :mg:

Stijloor.