How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management Systems

[bgwiehle]

I am looking for advice on how to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management Systems (QMS & EMS). We're making progress but a fresh perspective can only help...

Constraints:
2 standards (ISO/TS16949 & ISO 14001), 2 registrars (corporate decision), separate QMR & EMR, often different people are responsible for equivalent systems.

Consideration:
There is significant health & safety documentation available that piggybacks onto the QMS & EMS, but is not truly integrated to either.

Status:
Both management systems are fairly mature. Document control & Training processes are completely integrated. Significant overlap exists in some other systems, especially procedural (i.e. both systems do it almost the same way, but produce separate records). I am in the process of mapping the congruence between the 2 systems.

Progress:
Joint internal audits (where feasible) are being attempted this year.

Questions:
? Is there a way to structure an integrated QMS/EMS to reduce duplication while remaining auditable by different 3rd parties?
? Is there anyone in the region between London ON and Kitchener ON who is also engaged in this exercise (at whatever stage) who would like to network on this topic?

Thanks!
B.G. Wiehle (EMR)

QMR = Quality Management Representative
EMR = Environmental Management Representative

 

[Stijloor]

Re: How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management System

I am looking for advice on how to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management Systems (QMS & EMS). We're making progress but a fresh perspective can only help...

Constraints:
2 standards (ISO/TS16949 & ISO 14001), 2 registrars (corporate decision), separate QMR & EMR, often different people are responsible for equivalent systems.

Consideration:
There is significant health & safety documentation available that piggybacks onto the QMS & EMS, but is not truly integrated to either.

Status:
Both management systems are fairly mature. Document control & Training processes are completely integrated. Significant overlap exists in some other systems, especially procedural (i.e. both systems do it almost the same way, but produce separate records). I am in the process of mapping the congruence between the 2 systems.

Progress:
Joint internal audits (where feasible) are being attempted this year.

Questions:
? Is there a way to structure an integrated QMS/EMS to reduce duplication while remaining auditable by different 3rd parties?
? Is there anyone in the region between London ON and Kitchener ON who is also engaged in this exercise (at whatever stage) who would like to network on this topic?

Thanks!
B.G. Wiehle (EMR)

QMR = Quality Management Representative
EMR = Environmental Management Representative

I do not have all the answers, but here are a few things that I have observed:

(By the way, I am not an ISO 14001 expert)

This organization (my Client) is ISO/TS 16949 and ISO 14001 certified.

The Manual is totally integrated. For clarity, ISO/TS text is black, ISO 14001 text is green. Same with procedures and other supporting documentation.

Internal audits, management reviews, etc, are integrated as well.

Duplication of effort has been avoided to the extent possible.

Works like a charm. Registrar (external) auditors are delighted.

Stijloor.

 

[Paul Simpson]

Re: How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management System

Here's an idea.

• Identify your business processes
• Identify responsible people as process "owners "
• Get them to document the ones that need to be documented in the way they want to describe the activity they own
• You and the QMR (and the H & S person) either together or separately review the documented procedures
• With the process owners add in any TS or 14001 (or OSHA) specific elements that have been missed

Hey presto! Integrated management system in language the users should understand and without reference to all the jargon only we, the "experts" understand. Like:

• Environmental aspects
• Product realization

... and not a clause number to be seen!

 

[Peter Fraser]

Re: How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management System

Here's an idea.

• Identify your business processes
• Identify responsible people as process "owners "
• Get them to document the ones that need to be documented in the way they want to describe the activity they own
• You and the QMR (and the H & S person) either together or separately review the documented procedures
• With the process owners add in any TS or 14001 (or OSHA) specific elements that have been missed

Hey presto! Integrated management system in language the users should understand and without reference to all the jargon only we, the "experts" understand. Like:

• Environmental aspects
• Product realization

... and not a clause number to be seen!

Paul

You are being sensible again...!

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Re: How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management System

Here's an idea.

• Identify your business processes
• Identify responsible people as process "owners "
• Get them to document the ones that need to be documented in the way they want to describe the activity they own
• You and the QMR (and the H & S person) either together or separately review the documented procedures
• With the process owners add in any TS or 14001 (or OSHA) specific elements that have been missed

Hey presto! Integrated management system in language the users should understand and without reference to all the jargon only we, the "experts" understand. Like:

• Environmental aspects
• Product realization

... and not a clause number to be seen!

If they did their ISO 9001 correctly, most of this should already be done.

The QMS should define the processes already. Most of those supporting processes will be essentially the same as in ISO 14001.

I find ISO 14001 typically just adds a few new things -

Defining the Aspects and Impacts of your operations (cl 4.3.1 if you want to refer to it,

Determining your Legal Regulations and Requirements, and evaluating whether you are complying to them (cl 4.3.3 and 4.5.2),

Determining Objectives and Targets for EMS,

Planning for Emergency Preparedness (cl 4.4.6),

and additional training (cl 4.4.2).

Most of the rest of the requirements should be the same as they are in ISO 9001.

 

[Paul Simpson]

Re: How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management System

If they did their ISO 9001 correctly, most of this should already be done.

The point of my tongue in cheek post was to say forget about the standard requirements and start from what the business wants and needs - ah well!

The QMS should define the processes already. Most of those supporting processes will be essentially the same as in ISO 14001.

I find ISO 14001 typically just adds a few new things -

Defining the Aspects and Impacts of your operations (cl 4.3.1 if you want to refer to it,

Part of business planning, new product introduction and change management.

Determining your Legal Regulations and Requirements, and evaluating whether you are complying to them (cl 4.3.3 and 4.5.2),

Part of market surveillance, business planning, new product introduction.

Determining Objectives and Targets for EMS,

Part of business planning

Planning for Emergency Preparedness (cl 4.4.6),

Part of business planning

and additional training (cl 4.4.2).

Part of business planning, new product introduction, HR processes

Most of the rest of the requirements should be the same as they are in ISO 9001.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Re: How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management System

The point of my tongue in cheek post was to say forget about the standard requirements and start from what the business wants and needs - ah well!

Part of business planning, new product introduction and change management.

Part of market surveillance, business planning, new product introduction.

Part of business planning

Part of business planning

Part of business planning, new product introduction, HR processes

Sure Paul, but one can go so far away from the "buzzwords" in the ISO standard that they lose all links to what the standard is trying to say.

The way you described it, it sounds more like a quality system than an environmental one. And, as I indicated, those things should already be in place in a 9001 system, so they would not need to do them over again. My point was they needed to add those few additioanl things I mentioned, and harmonize the rest.

I think it is useful for an organization to understand the different official parts of the 14001 program, because it helps facilitate integrating the 2 programs. Nonetheless, an organization i permitted to call them whatever they want. They just have to be able to answer audit questions as well.

 

[Paul Simpson]

Re: How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management System

Paul

You are being sensible again...!

Heaven forbid! Or if I am - it's OK ... only a passing phase!

 

[Paul Simpson]

Re: How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management System

Sure Paul, but one can go so far away from the "buzzwords" in the ISO standard that they lose all links to what the standard is trying to say.

Absolutely not!

The only reason standards are written in jargon is so that the requirements can be translated into the various languages the key members of ISO use - at least that's how I heard the term "product realization" came about.
All the standards are doing is doing is setting out good practice for (in this case) management of quality and the environment - something all good companies should be doing anyway.

The way you described it, it sounds more like a quality system than an environmental one. And, as I indicated, those things should already be in place in a 9001 system, so they would not need to do them over again. My point was they needed to add those few additioanl things I mentioned, and harmonize the rest.

I hope the way I described it was as a business system. Just because a company doesn't have ISO 14001 certification doesn't mean the local, national and international laws don't apply to them, for example.

Again the areas of the business I picked out are those that could introduce new aspects to be considered under the BMS. For example:

• Business planning - if the company is going into a new market they need to understand the environmental aspects of the market - new distribution channels, new legal requirements, new end of life waste streams etc.
• New product introduction - new materials, supply chain, new product life cycle etc., etc.
• Change management - if you are going to improve a production facility for example there is the strip out of the old, purchase of new equipment, opportunities to improve efficiency that could have an impact (+ or -) on the environment.

I think it is useful for an organization to understand the different official parts of the 14001 program, because it helps facilitate integrating the 2 programs.

14001 isn't a program(me) - it is a set of requirements.

I'll say it again - look at what you do, write up the bits that the business needs to be documented, implement the system.

Nonetheless, an organization i permitted to call them whatever they want. They just have to be able to answer audit questions as well.

Another hobby horse of mine. It is the auditor's job to ask the right questions in terminology the auditee should understand and, in their own mind, decide if they meet the requirements of whatever standard(s) the organization has asked to be assessed against. They then have to record their findings and conclusion in the report back to their customer - in words they will again understand.