Internal auditor conduct, unbecoming an auditor...

[juliov]

Hello quality pros, need you to comment on the following question:

what do you do when an internal auditor does not want to close down on CARs the auditor issued during an internal audit, the CARs were issued 3 months ago, although they were improperly issued, the process involved has answered and replied and even the company president reviewed them and wants the auditor to close them and turn the CARs to QA for closure. Issue is the internal auditor does not want to close them out, hoping to find something else. What can be done in a case, what do Lead auditors recommend?? I have not faced an issue such as this before.

Thanks,

 

[Wes Bucey]

Hello quality pros, need you to comment on the following question:

what do you do when an internal auditor does not want to close down on CARs the auditor issued during an internal audit, the CARs were issued 3 months ago, although they were improperly issued, the process involved has answered and replied and even the company president reviewed them and wants the auditor to close them and turn the CARs to QA for closure. Issue is the internal auditor does not want to close them out, hoping to find something else. What can be done in a case, what do Lead auditors recommend?? I have not faced an issue such as this before.

Thanks,

Are we talking employee Internal auditor (IA) or outside contractor?
Something is terribly wrong. Either you, staff,and CEO have been misinformed or IA has no concept of real purpose if an internal audit.

Fast solution : CEO fires IA
Best solution: CEO hires outside expert (like a Wes Bucey or somone referred by current Chair of local ASQ Section) to sit down with all parties to arbitrate and help everyone learn how to really perform internal audit and to close out any corrective action.

 

[Coury Ferguson]

Best solution: CEO hires outside expert (like a Wes Bucey or somone referred by current Chair of local ASQ Section) to sit down with all parties to arbitrate and help everyone learn how to really perform internal audit and to close out any corrective action.

We aren't promoting a business here are we (even though that would be the right choice)?

 

[fuzzy]

...
what do you do when an internal auditor does not want to close down on CARs the auditor issued during an internal audit,... and even the company president reviewed them and wants the auditor to close them and turn the CARs to QA for closure.

What does your procedure say about CAR closure process? Mine says the Lead Internal Auditor (LIA), me, has the authority to review effectiveness and determine closeout status. Do you have an LIA? Or is the mule the LIA? As Wes has stated, your CEO could make it a career-limiting decision on the part of the IA or more progressively, a learning event for all parties. Without more details, hard to know the truth. A QMS isn't necessarily a democracy, i.e. the most votes don't make it right. But the buck still stops at the top...

 

[juliov]

Internal auditor employee, I guess with a bad attitude. What options can I as lead auditor have to solve this issue and obviously not use this auditor again. thanks

 

[Coury Ferguson]

Internal auditor employee, I guess with a bad attitude. What options can I as lead auditor have to solve this issue and obviously not use this auditor again. thanks

I would suggest that being the Lead Internal Auditor (as long as your procedures allow this) close them out yourself and rethink using the current auditor that has been a little hesitant to close out CAR (it appears you have answer that question.)

But, before deciding to close out the existing CARs, perform a follow-up action.

 

[juliov]

can you expand on the statement of "review effectiveness and closeout status"
Thanks,

 

[Coury Ferguson]

can you expand on the statement of "review effectiveness and closeout status"
Thanks,

There are a couple of steps (follow-up) that I know about, but someone else might have something different.

1. Verify the action was taken (the action taken was done as stated)

2. Validate the effectiveness (did it really address Root Cause and it was effective)

3. If these answers are "yes" then closeout the CARs

This are just some of the actions you could do to closeout the CARs

 

[Wes Bucey]

Coury and others have good advice. It appears to me there is a big misunderstanding about the function and purpose of an internal audit. No auditor should be able to impose such an action without a strong justification and specific citation to an applicable Procedure, Work Instruction, or clause of a Standard. The concept is a "snapshot" - not a statement to the effect "I can read the future and know you are going to screw up!"

Aside to Coury and others - I wrote "like a Wes Bucey" with the emphasis on "expert." I still think the entire organization needs a review of the internal audit function.

 

[Claes Gefvenberg]

Issue is the internal auditor does not want to close them out, hoping to find something else.

Hoping to find something else??? That, I don't understand. The audit is done... over with... finito... He would have to wait until next time (If there is a next time). Could you tell us more?

sit down with all parties to arbitrate and help everyone learn how to really perform internal audit and to close out any corrective action.

Right

As Wes has stated, your CEO could make it a career-limiting decision on the part of the IA or more progressively, a learning event for all parties.

Something tells me that this auditor already limited his career a wee bit all by himself (unless his superiors are very understanding)?

IWhat options can I as lead auditor have to solve this issue and obviously not use this auditor again. thanks

As already indicated you could overrule him, but it would be preferrable if you could make him understand instead. Is it possible?

/Claes