Cafeteria Services in ISO9001:2008 Audit

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safetyofficergroup7

Can an auditor who is auditing an educational institution ask questions about the cafeteria services during an ISO9001:2008 audit, i.e. regarding food hygiene monitoring?

Isn't that related to EMS and OSHMS?
 

sagai

Quite Involved in Discussions
Re: Cafeteria Services in ISO9001:2008

Well, they could, however apart from looking for advise about the best sandwiches it looks a wee bizarre for me.
I assume the cafeteria service is provided by a supplier, so it is their call to comply with any of the corresponding legislation/standard.
Let's have an extreme example ... are you monitoring the water cleanness and potential contamination rate of your water supply? :D
Cheers! :bigwave:
 

harry

Trusted Information Resource
Re: Cafeteria Services in ISO9001:2008

Can an auditor who is auditing an educational institution ask questions about the cafeteria services during an ISO9001:2008 audit, i.e. regarding food hygiene monitoring?

Isn't that related to EMS and OSHMS?

Welcome to the Cove.

Cafeteria is part of the facilities or infrastructure of an educational Institution and is auditable. Refer to IWA 2 if you want to have a better appreciation of how ISO 9001 is applied to educational institutions.
 

sagai

Quite Involved in Discussions
I genuinely reject to blindly follow any guidance to be honest and I am tempted to retain my argument for auditors.
Having read this guidance it is only saying that for infrastructural elements like cafeteria there should be a risk assessment considering hygienic hazards.
It is not about that educational organization should monitor food hygienic for cafeteria.
Very interesting link and material though, thank you for sharing!
Regards
 

AndyN

Moved On
Can an auditor who is auditing an educational institution ask questions about the cafeteria services during an ISO9001:2008 audit, i.e. regarding food hygiene monitoring?

Isn't that related to EMS and OSHMS?

Firstly, we need to know what role the auditor is in - internal, possibly Certification Body or even customer/regulatory. Which is it?

Different auditors displaying this behaviour have to be treated differently. What was the scope of their audit? Some auditors exhibit "mission creep" and get into areas of an organization they shouldn't be in.

Tell us a bit more about the situation and we can give a little more guidance. For anyone to simply say it's part of an ISO 9001 audit may be correct, but we really need to know the scope.
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
Can an auditor who is auditing an educational institution ask questions about the cafeteria services during an ISO9001:2008 audit, i.e. regarding food hygiene monitoring?

Isn't that related to EMS and OSHMS?

She/He could ask, because it could be that these services could be outsourced and your organization shall control the it
Besides, as Andy said, the audit have also the working environment under the scope and the cafeteria could fall in.
Is this external audit? Was this item planned by the auditor? How critical is cafeteria service in your QMS?
 

Sidney Vianna

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Can an auditor who is auditing an educational institution ask questions about the cafeteria services during an ISO9001:2008 audit, i.e. regarding food hygiene monitoring?

Isn't that related to EMS and OSHMS?
Welcome to The Cove. Very interesting question. I think that, in order to provide you with a reasonable answer, we would have to consider a number of issues:

1. What exactly is the product delivered by this institution? This is not a rhetorical question because the typical service/product delivered by a educational entity typically contains tangible and intangible components.
2. If we reach the conclusion that the food served in the cafeteria is a component of the product being delivered by the institution, directly or outsourced, then,
3. You should have included the cafeteria and it's processes in the scope of the QMS you have established (as per ISO 9001:2008, 4.2.2)
4. An unsafe food item would obviously lead to customer dissatisfaction.
5. The aspects of infrastructure and "work environment" related to the cafeteria, in addition to the rest of the organization premises) would be at play here, as well.
6. So, before an external auditor even attempted to assess the conditions of the cafeteria, you should have done an internal assessment, yourself.
7. While food safety is covered by numerous specific standards, such as ISO 22000, contaminated/unsafe food made available by the educational institution would be contrary to the ISO 9000 definition of quality, thus, and indirectly, potential "fair game" as part of an ISO 9001 audit.
8. Having said all of that, can the auditor demonstrate competence in terms of hygiene assessment? Does s/he know anything about the requirements associated with a kitchen operation?

Good luck.
 

sagai

Quite Involved in Discussions
Catering pretty much part of all kind of businesses rather than to be limited to education.
The thing is, may be due to lack of my this kind of experience, I have never ever come across such attention on catering apart from yes, supplier and should be treated such a way as suppliers and yes, part of infrastructure, but really , that's all.
Cheers!
 
S

safetyofficergroup7

To clarify the question further

1. The audit in question is done by a Certification Body for ISO9001:2008
2. The audit is performed by an external auditor
3. Product

- Education services
- Educational support services
- To design & develop education programs
- Research activities pertaining to education services

4. Food hygiene is not included in the QM
5. Food hygiene is included in the auditor's main audit agenda
 
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