Open CARs (Corrective Action Requests) and 8D Processes

al40

Quite Involved in Discussions
Hi,

Looking for an examples of an 8D processes, As I feel the current one my organization has in place is broken we have over 30 open CARs and I think the primary problem is there is no commitment from management to put effective fixes in place.

Anyhow I was just wondering what other companies are doing as far 8Ds and have you seen this type of problems before. Any information would be helpful.

Thanks,

Al40
 

Stijloor

Leader
Super Moderator
Re: CAR\8D processes

Al,

Do all open CAR's require an 8-D approach? In some cases, (a true) 8-D may be overkill. Different nonconformities require different responses. Does your company use nonconformity evaluation criteria to decide what course of action to take?

If Top Management is aware of this sad situation, and no action is taken to tackle these 30 open CARs, that means a total lack of commitment.

Stijloor.
 

AndyN

Moved On
Re: CAR\8D processes

Be sure that the content of the CAR is worthy of management's attention! I've seen places bury themselves in issues written up as a CAR which, frankly were a complete waste of time!

If you think of these as opportunities to improve, would management be able to handle that quantity? Would they have a budget to work on them? I think if you go back and look at many of them they are probably relatively minor in nature, could be 'corrected' rather than needing a full-blown 8D and some might be 'lumped together' to reduce the paperwork burden...
 
I

irish01

I am fighting that battle right now. Over the last 2 yrs several audits called attention to our lacking CAR process, so we started taking steps to improve, including 2nd-party review of CA responses (for robustness). I don;t like it but right now in my org, its necessary. Last Aug, my CEO asked me to begin putting out a weekly Open CAR report to all senior management. Brought a little more visibility, especially when the CEO questions those who's reports have open CARs...but that doesn't always happen; there are bigger fish the CEO has to fry most weeks. Around Feb we adopted a 7D process (for simplicity's sake) for all CAs and shortened CAR reponse & implementation to 30 days. We have as many open CARs now as we ever did and what is more frustrating is the terrible actions given that are supposed to solve these problems (yes, from people with the word "Manager" in their title)! How in the world do you make Manager and you cannot solve simple problems...but i digress.
We did a little interviewing around the org to get feedback why CARs were not getting solved in a timely manner. The top things mentioned were:
1. Lack of training in problem solving/root cause analysis (some have had it before but still...common sense to most of us but worth thinking about).
2. Lack of accountability/lack of urgency from those that own CARs and their management to deal with them and not ignore them. Spending time on "getting the order" is waaaay more important than time spent fixing problems.
3. Assigning CARs to the wrong personnel; those that don't have training (we actually had managers delegate their CARs to low level personnel who had no clue how to answer them). Ridiculous but it was happening!
4. (from me) as you can see, the above 3 are byproducts of a weak QMS--a fairly hairy problem by itself because it requires culture change to correct, which is always a big deal. If the org doesn't understand what CARs and continuous improvement give...you're starting in the basement.

We're inching along making some progress but its painful. Among other things, we are planning some problem-solving training and I "coach" all levels of personnel almost daily on appropriate CA responses & how to solve their problems (I have asked for a bigger check since I am solving people's problems for them)! We are replacing our Word "CAR form", which is emailed around, etc, by having IT build a SQL CAR database to handle inputs from all associated parties, with built-in automated alerts, etc. We hope this will speed up the logistics somewhat. If you check around though, probably the heart of your problem lies with some of the things i've mentioned above.
 
T

tomvehoski

Changing the process, the name of the form, or anything else will not solve management's lack of commitment. Sounds like your CEO might get it, but doesn't have the time to babysit his next level of management. Two things, with his support, might help.

1. Set clear goals for his management to work on and close CARs. No CAR improvement, no bonus.
2. Appoint someone, probably you, with the power to refuse poor responses and keep them open. Bad responses, no bonus.

Note training and other things may be needed to support the above, but it sounds more cultural than an overly complicated system. You need to make it easy for the CEO to enforce the system if people won't play along. If they don't have an excuse for not setting it as a priority (through goals) and it is visible (reports) it makes it easy for the CEO to support you. If he won't, you are in trouble.
 
D

Duke Okes

It's not unusual for people to need training on root cause analysis. It's kept me busy for many years.

Consider getting a status review done of open CARs at least each week in a meeting which management holds. Face-to-face.
 
J

JaneB

All very good responses with which I agree.

If there's lots open, there's some kind of problem. Good idea to turn to root cause analysis to figure out why - there may be multiple causes, many or all of which need addressing.
 

al40

Quite Involved in Discussions
All very good responses with which I agree.

If there's lots open, there's some kind of problem. Good idea to turn to root cause analysis to figure out why - there may be multiple causes, many or all of which need addressing.

FYI,

If I didn't mention a majority of these are from our customers. So I'm trying to figure out where to start.

Thanks,

Al40
 
J

JaneB

Oh dear. That they're almost all from customers is worse - means they're finding your problems (and presumably unhappy about same) rather than you.

It won't get fixed overnight, but I'd always start with analysis: can you identify the main cause/s? Can you pick out some priorities for immediate action and tackle those first?
 
C

ChrissieO

We have recently changed our auditing stratergy and now have fewer internal audits but "bigger" audits where we look at the total process with a team of auditors over a number of days. This has helped to eliminate the problem of managers not completing CArs as they now have to attend the closing meeting of the audit and it is discussed at this point, who is responsible, what time frame will be required, is it a JDI, project or process improvement. This way the managers have given their commitment to the CA.

This will also work for any smaller audits we do as they will be at the request of a manager to look at a suspected broken process and as they have requested the audit of the process you have their buy in from the begining.

Another thing we have done is to group recurring or similar NCs into one i.e.

7 NCs for doc control over 3 audits would niow be combined into one so that there is a manager driven project to look at the whole process and not individual fix its, getting to the root cause and eliminating the need for sticking plaster fixes.

Chrissie
 
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