Cl 7.4 Purchasing - Selection of Suppliers determined by Parent Company

[tnott]

Hello All:

I need help. I am implementing ISO 9001 at our company. There is our parent company that breaks down into seven different branches. Our branch is attempting to become ISO certified. We control all of our processes except for Purchasing. All of the branches utilize the same purchasing software (JDE). In JDE there are all of the suppliers the companies have ever used. We also create our Purchase orders through JDE.

My question is...

How am I controlling the Purchasing process if the parent company (not ISO certified) controls what suppliers are in the system? Also if our Purchase Order templates are suppose to be controlled forms, how do I do this when the purchase orders are generated through the software. I am not able to put a control number on the bottom of the purchase order when all of the divisions utilize the same template but are not under our QMS.

Suggestions?

 

[Quality-Geek]

Re: Help with 7.4 Purchasing ISO Caluse

Hello All:

I need help. I am implementing ISO 9001 at our company. There is our parent company that breaks down into seven different branches. Our branch is attempting to become ISO certified. We control all of our processes except for Purchasing. All of the branches utilize the same purchasing software (JDE). In JDE there are all of the suppliers the companies have ever used. We also create our Purchase orders through JDE.

My question is...

How am I controlling the Purchasing process if the parent company (not ISO certified) controls what suppliers are in the system? Also if our Purchase Order templates are suppose to be controlled forms, how do I do this when the purchase orders are generated through the software. I am not able to put a control number on the bottom of the purchase order when all of the divisions utilize the same template but are not under our QMS.

Suggestions?

Here's my
We don't control the purchasing forms that are generated by the software (different program, same issue). Purchasing forms that are created in Excel or Word are controlled. These are purchase requests, reimbursement forms, travel expense reports, etc.

As far as suppliers, we are in a similar boat...our parent comany determines our suppliers regardless of our input. We still do a supplier review process for new and existing suppliers. This includes an audit of the supplier (often Corporate does this for us), sample products, referrals, copies of their ISO or TS certifications, copies of their control plans and FMEA's for the processes that we'll get parts from, and some financial stuff. We have tons of documentation showing that choosing and controlling the suppliers is handled at the corporate level. So far, the auditors have understood this and it's been accepted.

Hope this helps!
Bekki

 

[somashekar]

Hello All:

I need help. I am implementing ISO 9001 at our company. There is our parent company that breaks down into seven different branches. Our branch is attempting to become ISO certified. We control all of our processes except for Purchasing. All of the branches utilize the same purchasing software (JDE). In JDE there are all of the suppliers the companies have ever used. We also create our Purchase orders through JDE.

My question is...

How am I controlling the Purchasing process if the parent company (not ISO certified) controls what suppliers are in the system? Also if our Purchase Order templates are suppose to be controlled forms, how do I do this when the purchase orders are generated through the software. I am not able to put a control number on the bottom of the purchase order when all of the divisions utilize the same template but are not under our QMS.

Suggestions?

Is your parent company your customer as well and the only one customer you have ?
If so then selection criteria is clearly customer driven.
If not ...
You must be happy that a system driven purchase software is working well for you. If the supplier's are already there on the list in the software and you are happy with them based on their last few supplies, you have a selection criteria ready at your end to demonstrate. All the purchase orders that you generate in the software from your branch will form your records of purchase.
If I were to be in your place, I would be too happy with what I have.

 

[Jason Dodds]

Re: Help with 7.4 Purchasing ISO Caluse

Hello tnott,

My previous employer used JDE as well and i had the same question until they decided they were just gonna steal Boeings supplier list.Somehow it works and they maintain their ISO9001 certification and have successfully completed many audits.

Kind regards,
Jason D.

 

[qusys]

Hello All:

I need help. I am implementing ISO 9001 at our company. There is our parent company that breaks down into seven different branches. Our branch is attempting to become ISO certified. We control all of our processes except for Purchasing. All of the branches utilize the same purchasing software (JDE). In JDE there are all of the suppliers the companies have ever used. We also create our Purchase orders through JDE.

My question is...

How am I controlling the Purchasing process if the parent company (not ISO certified) controls what suppliers are in the system? Also if our Purchase Order templates are suppose to be controlled forms, how do I do this when the purchase orders are generated through the software. I am not able to put a control number on the bottom of the purchase order when all of the divisions utilize the same template but are not under our QMS.

Suggestions?

I would like to ask how you have demonstrated the link with Corporate Purchasing in your QMS . I think that Corporate Purchasing, even if it is not in the scope of your ISO certification , it will be audited the same because it represent a so called "remote function", that provide you a service in the process of supplier mgmt.
As to the forms in your software, I do not see any issue. You can declare this activity in your documentation control procedure and record control procedure. Form sare generated by means of the softare and when they are filled in , they will become records to be mantained by your organization .
For the first issue, pls contact your Certification Body to deal with that topic , so that you will not have any surprise.
Pls, let us know
hope this helps

 

[tnott]

Thanks you guys for all of your responses.

I understand now that I will not have to control the forms that are generated from our purchasing/ inventory software, but will have to control the records produced from the software.

Our corporate office is one of our customers, however, we have additional customers as well. So I am assuming that I will need to head up the ladder to find out how they control this process.

Again, I very much appreciate all of your responses.

 

[qusys]

Thanks you guys for all of your responses.

I understand now that I will not have to control the forms that are generated from our purchasing/ inventory software, but will have to control the records produced from the software.

Our corporate office is one of our customers, however, we have additional customers as well. So I am assuming that I will need to head up the ladder to find out how they control this process.

Again, I very much appreciate all of your responses.

Appreciated your thank, tnott.
However, consider that 7.4 clause cannot be excluded from your ISO 9001 scope. The only clause that can be waived is the one related to Design and development of the product.
Again, I would like to highlight that Corporate Purchasing should be considered a support process for you and I think that they should be involved in the audit as remote function, even if the Certification Body cannot release any ISO certificate to them.
Best luck and keep us updated

 

[Sidney Vianna]

My question is...

How am I controlling the Purchasing process if the parent company (not ISO certified) controls what suppliers are in the system?

Suggestions?

According to the ISO Guidance on Outsourced Processes document, you have an outsourced process.

The only clause that can be waived is the one related to Design and development of the product.

Not really. While the OP can not consider 7.4 as an exclusion, your limitation on exclusions applies only to TS-16949. For ISO 9001, in principle, any clause in section 7 can be potentially excluded if the justifications are sound.

 

[tnott]

Thank you very much for the document. I appreciate everyone's help.